Undines+humans =3D3D Green Man? The Urth list — 2 messages, 2 voices, 10 Apr 2005 https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4402 Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. ============================================================================== thalassocrat at nym.hush.com — 10 Apr 2005, 05:29 The status of Abaia et al with the coming of Ushas has bugged me. They survive (as far as I know), there's lots of water for them, and if they want to create a race of slaves it seems that they should be ideally positioned to do it, given that the Commonwealth has been destroyed & that humanity has been reduced to a scattered remnant. One of the first descriptions we have of Abaia is in Sev's dream while he shares a bed with Baldanders: the undines say, "... Abaia, who will one day devour the continents." (Shadow, p98) To the extent that the ocean is the realm of Abaia et al, this is pretty much what happens with the coming of the New Sun. Apart from a whole lot of people being killed and Urth becoming Ushas, the coming of the New Sun also heralds the emergence of a new race. We are given lots of hints about this (eg, in Talos' play) & I guess it must necessarily be true, if the New Sun is vital for the eventual emergence of the Hieros. I have a notion that Abaia et al will play an essential part in this. What examplar of a new race do we actually encounter, whose existence is predicated on the New Sun? Obviously, the Green Man. I don't think it's a big leap to see him as a stage in the evolution towards Hiero-ness. What are his distinguishing characteristics vs old-style humans? Algae in the blood for energy and the ability to time travel. Who does that remind me of? The undines. Maybe a hint: while Sev prepares to torture junior Undine Idas in his cabin on the ship, he has these thoughts about why he had not at first recognized Idas as an undine: "The undine's [Juturna's] hair had been green, not white; perhaps that had done most of all. I should have realized then that such a true and vivid green is not found in men or beasts with hair or fur, and when it seems to occur is the effect of algae, like that of the blood of the green man at Saltus." Juturna says of Abaia that his goal has been to "make of us a great people". (UOTNS, p306) This, of course, is also one way of expressing the goal of the Hieros. Both have proceeded up until now with equivalent harshness: Abaia by "taming" a swathe of urth's population, "cutting out their conation"; the Hieros by cutting the heart out of the Old Sun. Immediately after Juturna's speech, Sev reflects on Famulimus' Socratic question: "Is all the world a war of good and bad? Have you not thought it might be someting more?" And then on aquastor- Malrubius' belief (taken from Sev's own mind) that Juturna had saved him from drowning because "I would be a torturer and an Autarch. It might be that neither he nor the undine were wholly wrong." He recalls aquastor-Malrubius' image of humanity being forged between hammer and anvil. I believe these are the Plan of Abaia, and the Plan of the Hieros. With the coming of the New Sun, perhaps a synthesis between the two is achieved, and perhaps it is indeed the case that Sev has furthered the ends of both. On this story, Abaia et al opposed the coming of the New Sun because they wished to work their Plan with Old Humans as the raw material. Perhaps some species of compassion was involved. (If they are like the Mother on Blue, this is easy to believe: everything we see of her is consistent a being who wants to be loved and worshipped & is extravagant with her gifts in return. She is dangerous, I think, not because she is evil, but because prayers to her are efficacious.) You could argue that the Ascians and their war are not the work of benevolent beings; but they same could be said of gutting the sun, and it takes two to make a lasting war. Anyway, continuing the made-up story: presented with the fait accompli of the New Sun, Abaia et al change tack. Now gigantism and retreat to the ocean are not the only option for longevity; a bit of Abaian genetic engineering and some pond scum will do instead. Green Men instead of undines, and (somehow or other) we're on the evolutionary path towards Hiero-hood. You also need to posit some kind of reconciliation between the aims of Abaia and the aims of the Hieros. Perhaps Sev is a "Conciliator" in this respect as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ nastler — 11 Apr 2005, 06:46 in reply to thalassocrat at nym.hush.com No-one has yet replied to Andrews exciting post. I have been wishing they would. It states plainly what others have only dared hint at in the archives (for example, marc talked about the similarities between the pelagic powers Mother/seawrack and Tad/miniTad conglomerations). A "deal" between two powers (Abia/mother who deserves "respect not worship" and the Hieros as the legitimate executors of the Increate) with a human conciliator (or stud). The powers of the deep could destroy Urthlings, but don't because they want us as slaves. The Heirodules could supply the Commonwealth with enough power to defeat the Ascians, but don't (only enough to check them) because they want our transendence (but not on Typhons terms and conditions). An impasse. A mexican stand-off. Both see Sev as a sexual (genetic) object. If Sev had jumped off the sandbank onto Juturna would she have drowned him or made little undines with him (an Ida or SeaWrack?). Apheta needs Sevs genome too, but (presumably for Lamarkian reasons) he needs to resist the advances of the deep powers until he has assended to heaven where he can deliver a consent to "the plan" and make a union between heaven and Urth. Apheta thereby extracts an "optimised" genome. Ushas is born. The Undines leap with joy as this "victory" means they can now monopolise the surviving Urthlings and populate the globe with proto-greenmanians (Neighbours?). The Heirodules smile smugly as this is all part of the bigger game plan, to create a race that will one day torture the Heiro's into existence. nastler ------------------------------------------------------------------------------