{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4407", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4407, "subject": "Abaia and the Claw", "messages": 6, "voices": 5, "first": "2005-04-18T20:22:46+00:00", "last": "2005-04-27T14:23:22+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeffrey Lefstin", "address": "jeff.lefstin at stanfordalumni.org" }, "date": "2005-04-18T20:22:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Abaia and the Claw", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The recent discussion of what role Abaia plays in the new Urth prompts \nme to note the interest Abaia seems to show in the Claw.\n\nRecall that in the beginning of CotC, Severian revisits the dream he \nhad when he shared Baldanders's bed, and says: \"Then very suddenly, I \nwho had been blind before understood why it was that Abaia had sent me \nthis dream, and had sought to enlist me in the great and final war of \nUrth.\"\n\nWell thanks a lot Sev; care to enlighten the rest of us? Here's my \nguess:\n\nSeverian's recounting of the dream differs from his original \ndescription, inter alia, in the use of the words AZURE, SAND-GARDEN, \nand TALON. Anyone familiar with BotNS would immediately think of the \nClaw if given just those three words. Perhaps Abaia seeks to enlist \nSeverian because, in addition to foreseeing that Severian will become \nAutarch, Abaia foresees that Severian will wield the Claw; Severian \nonly realizes this after he learns that he possesses the Claw.\n\nA connection is directly referenced when, at the end of CotA, Severian \nmuses on where the Claw might draw its power from. He there speculates \nthat the power of the Claw comes from Abaia & Co., who, having seen \nSeverian's destiny, \"found me again, and thereafter my course was \ntwisted by the Claw.\"\n\n\nIn UotNS, the power of the Claw is shown to come from Sev himself. But \nAbaia's interest in the Claw remains. Idas, Abaia's minion, ransacks \nSeverian's cabin looking for \"something so small it might have been \nconcealed in the collar of a shirt.\" While Severian is ready to \ntorture Idas in order to get Idas to tell him what it was, I think it's \na no-brainer for us that Idas was trying to find the thorn that will \nbecome the Claw - what else is there?\nMaybe then Idas is trying to prevent the Claw from coming into \nexistence; though the thorn got a drop of Severian's blood when he \nfirst found it, I read Apheta's explanation (\"It was saturated with \nyour blood\") to mean that the thorn did not become the Claw until \nSeverian jammed it good into his finger.\nThat takes place, of course, when Severian tries to use it to revive \nthe steward. Whom Idas has killed trying to find the thorn. So Idas, \nin trying to prevent the Claw from coming into existence, is actually \nthe reason it comes to be...." } ] }, { "message_id": "<200504200041.j3K0fC0R058200@mailserver3.hushmail.com>", "from": { "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com", "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com" }, "date": "2005-04-19T17:41:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Abaia and the Claw", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:22:41 -0700 Jeffrey Lefstin \n wrote:\nThe recent discussion of what role Abaia plays in the new Urth \nprompts \nme to note the interest Abaia seems to show in the Claw.\n...In UotNS, the power of the Claw is shown to come from Sev \nhimself. \nBut \nAbaia's interest in the Claw remains. Idas, Abaia's minion, \nransacks \nSeverian's cabin looking for \"something so small it might have \nbeen \nconcealed in the collar of a shirt.\" While Severian is ready to \ntorture Idas in order to get Idas to tell him what it was, I think " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "it's \na no-brainer for us that Idas was trying to find the thorn that \nwill \nbecome the Claw - what else is there?\nMaybe then Idas is trying to prevent the Claw from coming into \nexistence; though the thorn got a drop of Severian's blood when \nhe \nfirst found it, I read Apheta's explanation (\"It was saturated \nwith \nyour blood\") to mean that the thorn did not become the Claw until \nSeverian jammed it good into his finger.\nThat takes place, of course, when Severian tries to use it to \nrevive \nthe steward. Whom Idas has killed trying to find the thorn. So \nIdas, \nin trying to prevent the Claw from coming into existence, is \nactually \nthe reason it comes to be...." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's interesting, but didn't Idas say she was actually searching \nfor Inire's letter endorsing Sev as Autarch to the Hierogrammates? \nI don't recall the exact details. Somehow I got the impression that \n\nthe plan might have been to substitute somebody else for Sev at the \n\ntrial - which is kind of what happened in the end. " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4266D8FC.2030005@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "Matt Tillman", "address": "tillmas at verizon.net" }, "date": "2005-04-20T15:32:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Abaia and the Claw", "in_reply_to": "<200504200041.j3K0fC0R058200@mailserver3.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That's interesting, but didn't Idas say she was actually searching \nfor Inire's letter endorsing Sev as Autarch to the Hierogrammates? \nI don't recall the exact details. Somehow I got the impression that \n\nthe plan might have been to substitute somebody else for Sev at the \n\ntrial - which is kind of what happened in the end. \n\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Actually, Idas said that she found the letter and burned it. However, \nshe never claimed to be doing it so that Sev wouldn't make it to the \ntrial. However, it was shortly after Idas ransacked his quarters that \nGunnie told Sev not to worry that \"The Autarch\" had been found and was safe.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<233b2555c8a17f1eff9fcede1dbeaaad@stanfordalumni.org>", "from": { "name": "Jeffrey Lefstin", "address": "jeff.lefstin at stanfordalumni.org" }, "date": "2005-04-20T17:43:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Abaia and the Claw", "in_reply_to": "<4266D8FC.2030005@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:22:41 -0700 Jeffrey Lefstin\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The recent discussion of what role Abaia plays in the new Urth\nprompts\nme to note the interest Abaia seems to show in the Claw.\n...In UotNS, the power of the Claw is shown to come from Sev\nhimself.\nBut\nAbaia's interest in the Claw remains. Idas, Abaia's minion,\nransacks\nSeverian's cabin looking for \"something so small it might have\nbeen\nconcealed in the collar of a shirt.\" While Severian is ready to\ntorture Idas in order to get Idas to tell him what it was, I think" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "it's\na no-brainer for us that Idas was trying to find the thorn that\nwill\nbecome the Claw - what else is there?\nMaybe then Idas is trying to prevent the Claw from coming into\nexistence; though the thorn got a drop of Severian's blood when\nhe\nfirst found it, I read Apheta's explanation (\"It was saturated\nwith\nyour blood\") to mean that the thorn did not become the Claw until\nSeverian jammed it good into his finger.\nThat takes place, of course, when Severian tries to use it to\nrevive\nthe steward. Whom Idas has killed trying to find the thorn. So\nIdas,\nin trying to prevent the Claw from coming into existence, is\nactually\nthe reason it comes to be...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That's interesting, but didn't Idas say she was actually searching\nfor Inire's letter endorsing Sev as Autarch to the Hierogrammates?\nI don't recall the exact details. Somehow I got the impression that\n\nthe plan might have been to substitute somebody else for Sev at the\n\ntrial - which is kind of what happened in the end." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Something else as well, at least according to Severian:\n\nSev: \"What were you looking for?\"\nIdas: \"Your letter, the one that the aquastors of Urth gave you for the \nHierogrammate. I found it and burned it there in your own stateroom.\" \nHer voice held a note of triumph now.\nSev: \"You would have found that easily enough. You were looking for \nsomething else too, something you expected to be hidden. In a moment \nor two I'm going to hurt you very badly unless you tell me what that \nwas.\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "studio at studiobl.com", "address": "studio at studiobl.com" }, "date": "2005-04-22T12:41:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Abaia and the Claw", "in_reply_to": "<233b2555c8a17f1eff9fcede1dbeaaad@stanfordalumni.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hmmm...part of a plant that, when infused with human blood, has healing \npowers. Sounds kind of Neighbor-ly. I wonder what the Neighbor held \nto Horn's forehead when he was restoring him--a thorn?\n\nAlso: a conciliator brings together two opposing sides--like animal and \nvegetable? Could the Conciliator somehow be linked to the idea of a \nhuman/plant hybrid?\n\n\nBrian Lovely\n\nStudio bl\nhttp://www.studiobl.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<70106693928.20050427232935@poczta.fm>", "from": { "name": "Stanisław Bocian", "address": "sbocian at poczta.fm" }, "date": "2005-04-27T14:23:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Abaia and the Claw", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Friday, April 22, 2005, 9:42:41 PM, studio at studiobl.com wrote:\n\n\nssc> Also: a conciliator brings together two opposing sides--like animal and \nssc> vegetable? Could the Conciliator somehow be linked to the idea of a \nssc> human/plant hybrid?\n\n\nI would rather associate Conciliator with Paraclete\n\nParaclete\n\n [Old & mod. French paraclet from ecclesiastical Latin paracletus from\n Greek paraklUtos advocate, intercessor, from parakalein call to one's\n aid, formed as PARA-1 + kalein to call.]\n\n1. Christian Theology. A title of the Holy Spirit, esp. as an advocate\nor intercessor. ME.\n† 2. (paraclete.) gen. An advocate, an intercessor. M16–E18." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Stanis³aw Bocian\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n500 MB na poczte i strony WWW juz za 122 zl rocznie\n>>> http://link.interia.pl/f1879" } ] } ] }