# Abaia and the Claw *The Urth list — 6 messages, 5 voices, 18 Apr 2005* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Jeffrey Lefstin *18 Apr 2005, 20:22* The recent discussion of what role Abaia plays in the new Urth prompts me to note the interest Abaia seems to show in the Claw. Recall that in the beginning of CotC, Severian revisits the dream he had when he shared Baldanders's bed, and says: "Then very suddenly, I who had been blind before understood why it was that Abaia had sent me this dream, and had sought to enlist me in the great and final war of Urth." Well thanks a lot Sev; care to enlighten the rest of us? Here's my guess: Severian's recounting of the dream differs from his original description, inter alia, in the use of the words AZURE, SAND-GARDEN, and TALON. Anyone familiar with BotNS would immediately think of the Claw if given just those three words. Perhaps Abaia seeks to enlist Severian because, in addition to foreseeing that Severian will become Autarch, Abaia foresees that Severian will wield the Claw; Severian only realizes this after he learns that he possesses the Claw. A connection is directly referenced when, at the end of CotA, Severian muses on where the Claw might draw its power from. He there speculates that the power of the Claw comes from Abaia & Co., who, having seen Severian's destiny, "found me again, and thereafter my course was twisted by the Claw." In UotNS, the power of the Claw is shown to come from Sev himself. But Abaia's interest in the Claw remains. Idas, Abaia's minion, ransacks Severian's cabin looking for "something so small it might have been concealed in the collar of a shirt." While Severian is ready to torture Idas in order to get Idas to tell him what it was, I think it's a no-brainer for us that Idas was trying to find the thorn that will become the Claw - what else is there? Maybe then Idas is trying to prevent the Claw from coming into existence; though the thorn got a drop of Severian's blood when he first found it, I read Apheta's explanation ("It was saturated with your blood") to mean that the thorn did not become the Claw until Severian jammed it good into his finger. That takes place, of course, when Severian tries to use it to revive the steward. Whom Idas has killed trying to find the thorn. So Idas, in trying to prevent the Claw from coming into existence, is actually the reason it comes to be.... --- ### thalassocrat at nym.hush.com *19 Apr 2005, 17:41 · follows Jeffrey Lefstin* > On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:22:41 -0700 Jeffrey Lefstin > wrote: > The recent discussion of what role Abaia plays in the new Urth > prompts > me to note the interest Abaia seems to show in the Claw. > ...In UotNS, the power of the Claw is shown to come from Sev > himself. > But > Abaia's interest in the Claw remains. Idas, Abaia's minion, > ransacks > Severian's cabin looking for "something so small it might have > been > concealed in the collar of a shirt." While Severian is ready to > torture Idas in order to get Idas to tell him what it was, I think > it's > a no-brainer for us that Idas was trying to find the thorn that > will > become the Claw - what else is there? > Maybe then Idas is trying to prevent the Claw from coming into > existence; though the thorn got a drop of Severian's blood when > he > first found it, I read Apheta's explanation ("It was saturated > with > your blood") to mean that the thorn did not become the Claw until > Severian jammed it good into his finger. > That takes place, of course, when Severian tries to use it to > revive > the steward. Whom Idas has killed trying to find the thorn. So > Idas, > in trying to prevent the Claw from coming into existence, is > actually > the reason it comes to be.... That's interesting, but didn't Idas say she was actually searching for Inire's letter endorsing Sev as Autarch to the Hierogrammates? I don't recall the exact details. Somehow I got the impression that the plan might have been to substitute somebody else for Sev at the trial - which is kind of what happened in the end. --- ### Matt Tillman *20 Apr 2005, 15:32 · in reply to thalassocrat at nym.hush.com* > That's interesting, but didn't Idas say she was actually searching > for Inire's letter endorsing Sev as Autarch to the Hierogrammates? > I don't recall the exact details. Somehow I got the impression that > > the plan might have been to substitute somebody else for Sev at the > > trial - which is kind of what happened in the end. > > Actually, Idas said that she found the letter and burned it. However, she never claimed to be doing it so that Sev wouldn't make it to the trial. However, it was shortly after Idas ransacked his quarters that Gunnie told Sev not to worry that "The Autarch" had been found and was safe. -Matt --- ### Jeffrey Lefstin *20 Apr 2005, 17:43 · follows Matt Tillman* > On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:22:41 -0700 Jeffrey Lefstin > wrote: >> The recent discussion of what role Abaia plays in the new Urth >> prompts >> me to note the interest Abaia seems to show in the Claw. >> ...In UotNS, the power of the Claw is shown to come from Sev >> himself. >> But >> Abaia's interest in the Claw remains. Idas, Abaia's minion, >> ransacks >> Severian's cabin looking for "something so small it might have >> been >> concealed in the collar of a shirt." While Severian is ready to >> torture Idas in order to get Idas to tell him what it was, I think >> it's >> a no-brainer for us that Idas was trying to find the thorn that >> will >> become the Claw - what else is there? >> Maybe then Idas is trying to prevent the Claw from coming into >> existence; though the thorn got a drop of Severian's blood when >> he >> first found it, I read Apheta's explanation ("It was saturated >> with >> your blood") to mean that the thorn did not become the Claw until >> Severian jammed it good into his finger. >> That takes place, of course, when Severian tries to use it to >> revive >> the steward. Whom Idas has killed trying to find the thorn. So >> Idas, >> in trying to prevent the Claw from coming into existence, is >> actually >> the reason it comes to be.... > That's interesting, but didn't Idas say she was actually searching > for Inire's letter endorsing Sev as Autarch to the Hierogrammates? > I don't recall the exact details. Somehow I got the impression that > > the plan might have been to substitute somebody else for Sev at the > > trial - which is kind of what happened in the end. Something else as well, at least according to Severian: Sev: "What were you looking for?" Idas: "Your letter, the one that the aquastors of Urth gave you for the Hierogrammate. I found it and burned it there in your own stateroom." Her voice held a note of triumph now. Sev: "You would have found that easily enough. You were looking for something else too, something you expected to be hidden. In a moment or two I'm going to hurt you very badly unless you tell me what that was." --- ### studio at studiobl.com *22 Apr 2005, 12:41 · in reply to Jeffrey Lefstin* Hmmm...part of a plant that, when infused with human blood, has healing powers. Sounds kind of Neighbor-ly. I wonder what the Neighbor held to Horn's forehead when he was restoring him--a thorn? Also: a conciliator brings together two opposing sides--like animal and vegetable? Could the Conciliator somehow be linked to the idea of a human/plant hybrid? Brian Lovely Studio bl http://www.studiobl.com --- ### Stanisław Bocian *27 Apr 2005, 14:23 · in reply to studio at studiobl.com* Friday, April 22, 2005, 9:42:41 PM, studio at studiobl.com wrote: ssc> Also: a conciliator brings together two opposing sides--like animal and ssc> vegetable? Could the Conciliator somehow be linked to the idea of a ssc> human/plant hybrid? I would rather associate Conciliator with Paraclete Paraclete [Old & mod. French paraclet from ecclesiastical Latin paracletus from Greek paraklUtos advocate, intercessor, from parakalein call to one's aid, formed as PARA-1 + kalein to call.] 1. Christian Theology. A title of the Holy Spirit, esp. as an advocate or intercessor. ME. † 2. (paraclete.) gen. An advocate, an intercessor. M16–E18. ``` Stanis³aw Bocian ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 500 MB na poczte i strony WWW juz za 122 zl rocznie >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1879 ``` ---