{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4408", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4408, "subject": "Various Short Sun Matters", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2005-04-20T11:27:43+00:00", "last": "2005-04-20T21:22:08+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "studio at studiobl.com", "address": "studio at studiobl.com" }, "date": "2005-04-20T11:27:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Various Short Sun Matters", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am just finishing a third(?) reading of RTTW. I felt that I was \nbeginning to get some inklings of new insight, and have resolved to \nre-read the entire BOTN, making marginal notes.\n\nI have a few thoughts and questions, though.\n\nHas anyone worked out a timeline of events. I found that this time, I \nwas able to keep track of the different time sequences better than \npreviously, but on beginning to reread the first book, I started \nbecoming confused just where SilkHorn's time in Gaon fit into the \ntimeline.\n\nWhy is Seawrack missing a limb. At one point, I thought Babbie had \nbitten it off, resulting in some kind of psyche transference, but I'm \nnot so sure of this now.\n\nDoes Seawrack's ability to trigger uncontrollable rutting behavior have \nany thing to do with inter-species breeding experiments?\n\nWhat is the encrusted thing that climbs aboard Horn's boat?\n\nI thought the broken dome on the island had most likely been a \ngreenhouse for genetic experiments. Possibly human/plant hybrids \nresulting in the Neighbors. --The Neighbors would then be humans \ntransformed to meet new environmental stresses. Why then, would \nsimilar domes be at the bottom of the sea, as Seawrack mentions?\n\nIs Horn made part Neighbor on the island? Or just what the heck \nhappens in the pit?\n\nIf the Neighbors allowed the Imhumi to became part human in order to \ncompare the result with the result of Inhumi infused with Neighbor \nblood, where are the Neighbor/Inhumi?\n\nWhy does Horn's son see a Neighbor sitting on a \"tree branch\" when he \nlooks through Horn's ring?\n\nI think much of this fits together as a breeding or hybridization \nprogram. The three races (Neighbors, Humans and Inhumi) are brought \ntogether to create hybrids that are desirable somehow to someone. This \nis accomplished, in part by bringing the colonists from the Whorl to \nBlue and Green. The Whorl is to be sent away with a cargo of pure \nhuman stock, presumably with the idea to repeat the hybridization in \nanother 600 years or so. Possibly this is why the Neighbors have 'gone \naway' --to preserve remaining pure stock for future hybridization.\n\nHave the Neighbors really gone anywhere if you can find one just by \npeeping through one of their rings? What is that damn ring anyway? It \nseemed like Horn left it on Green when he was placed into Silk's body. \nThen he got a different ring that seem to turn, over time into the \noriginal ring.\n\nIs one of the three races the method of hybridization, rather than a \nbase stock? Possibly the Inhumi?\n\nIf the gods have hidden in animals, is Echidna in Babbie? Is someone \nin Oreb? Is Oreb even the original Oreb? Could Scylla be in Oreb for \nsome reason? I'm not sure why I think this last, I seem to remember \nsome connection between the two, possibly from the Long Sun Books. A \nlot of what happened around Lake Limna seemed fishy to me. I think \nthere is a lot of hints in that portion of the book that I couldn't \nquite get.\n\nAnything about the ocean-dwelling giants confuses me. I still don't \nquite get it about Abaia and whatnot. Was he just an alien who was \nscheming to take over Urth? Where does the Mother (in Blue's ocean) \nfit into the picture? She seems to be less malign than Abaia and his \nwives.\n\nI wonder if Mucor is able to assist with the transference of the \npsyches others--kind of like a human Sacred Window. If she could \nappear to the blind Pig, she may have offered to release the trapped \nPasSilk. She may also have been removing some rider from Babbie when \nHorn returned to Maytera's island with her eye. ...either Echidna, \nsome part of Echidna, or even part of herself...a sort of recording \nmechanism by which Mucor could plant part of herself, then retrieve it \nlater and access its memory.\n\nI don't doubt that some of these questions have been answered \nbefore...searching the Urth archives can be kind of frustrating, \nthough--lots of slogging through barely related material.\n\nPossibly more questions than thoughts...\n\nBrian Lovely\n\nStudio bl\nhttp://www.studiobl.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<001301c54629$a8cd08a0$60a3f63f@wynnhouse>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2005-04-20T21:22:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Various Short Sun Matters", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah! How nice to get some Short Sun questions. Personally, I'm so \"over\" the \nNew Sun issues right now." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Is Horn made part Neighbor on the island? Or just what the heck happens in \nthe pit?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My opinion:\nhttp://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2004-December/000274.html" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Has anyone worked out a timeline of events. I found that this time, I was \nable to keep track of the different time sequences better than previously, \nbut on beginning to reread the first book, I started becoming confused just \nwhere SilkHorn's time in Gaon fit into the timeline." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Have you really read \"The Short Sun\" twice without resolving this? That's a \nlittle depressing. Is the end of RTTW 2 years or three years since Horn left \nLizard? Are Sinew's sons so \"old\" because Green has a shorter year or \nbecause the Narrator arrives at a different time?\n\nIt seems that he can from the the grandmother's story in IGJ where she sees \nthe wizard whose bird says \"Beware\". She names one of her sons \"Incanto\" \nafter that wizard and the Narrator is given that name...which is who he is \nall the time. Another Wolfean cycle where a thing is ostensibly named after \nsomething else which is its true identity. If the Narrator was at that \ngrave, he must have gone there because he heard the grandmother's story. \nAlso, remember when Silk sees \"Pike's ghost\" at the manteon? Did you note \nthat he disappeared not like a gothic ghost but like someone \"spirit \ntraveling\"? That would also explain how Silk saw Oreb fly out of his bedroom \nwindow and disappear when Oreb could not fly at that time.\n\nBut for the Narrator to be able to travel in time as well as in space it \nonly complicates the timeline. It doesn't explain the discrepancy in Horn \nand Hide's account of how long Horn has been gone." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Why is Seawrack missing a limb. At one point, I thought Babbie had bitten \nit off, resulting in some kind of psyche transference, but I'm not so sure \nof this now." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't see any reason to doubt that she tried to come aboard the ship at \nnight and Babbie attacked her. Why do you doubt it?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Does Seawrack's ability to trigger uncontrollable rutting behavior have any \nthing to do with inter-species breeding experiments?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, the Narrator refers to her as \"bait\" so Mother is certainly trying to \nlure Horn for some purpose." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "What is the encrusted thing that climbs aboard Horn's boat?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Are you talking about the leatherskin?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I thought the broken dome on the island had most likely been a greenhouse \nfor genetic experiments. Possibly human/plant hybrids resulting in the \nNeighbors. --The Neighbors would then be humans transformed to meet new \nenvironmental stresses. Why then, would similar domes be at the bottom of \nthe sea, as Seawrack mentions?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Do you have a quote for this?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If the Neighbors allowed the Imhumi to became part human in order to \ncompare the result with the result of Inhumi infused with Neighbor blood, \nwhere are the Neighbor/Inhumi?\nWhy does Horn's son see a Neighbor sitting on a \"tree branch\" when he looks \nthrough Horn's ring?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It seems clear to me that the Neighbors *are* the trees somehow. They are \ndryads. That's why when the Narrator meets with the Neighbors in the scene \nwhere they give him the deed to Blue, one of them is lying down. he in a \nfallen tree." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think much of this fits together as a breeding or hybridization program. \nThe three races (Neighbors, Humans and Inhumi) are brought together to \ncreate hybrids that are desirable somehow to someone. This is \naccomplished, in part by bringing the colonists from the Whorl to Blue and \nGreen. The Whorl is to be sent away with a cargo of pure human stock, \npresumably with the idea to repeat the hybridization in another 600 years \nor so. Possibly this is why the Neighbors have 'gone away' --to preserve \nremaining pure stock for future hybridization.\nIs one of the three races the method of hybridization, rather than a base \nstock? Possibly the Inhumi?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hmm...you should check out Marc Aramini's Short Sun theory:\nhttp://www.urth.org/whorlmap/chras-writers/default.htm" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Have the Neighbors really gone anywhere if you can find one just by peeping \nthrough one of their rings? What is that damn ring anyway? It seemed like \nHorn left it on Green when he was placed into Silk's body. Then he got a \ndifferent ring that seem to turn, over time into the original ring." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think they have a dual nature with the trees and vines...or is it the \nInhumi that have a dual nature with the vines? They can go away in a sense \nand still be present in a sense, but I don't see that Wolfe has explained \nhow." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If the gods have hidden in animals, is Echidna in Babbie?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Where do you see that? I think it is obvious that the person in Babbie (at \nleast near the end of RTTW) is Silk. But how that is I cannot say at this \ntime." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Is someone in Oreb? Is Oreb even the original Oreb? Could Scylla be in Oreb \nfor some reason?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes. It is Scylla, the daughter of Pas. Isn't that obvious?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm not sure why I think this last, I seem to remember\nsome connection between the two, possibly from the Long Sun Books." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm curious what that would be. Do tell." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "A lot of what happened around Lake Limna seemed fishy to me." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "hee hee" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Anything about the ocean-dwelling giants confuses me.I still don't quite \nget it about Abaia and whatnot. Was he just an alien who was scheming to \ntake over Urth? Where does the Mother (in Blue's ocean) fit into the \npicture? She seems to be less malign than Abaia and his wives." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In suggesting a connection between Mother and the aliens of Urth, you have \ninadvertantly stumbled in to a contentious debate regarding the connection \nbetween Urth's solar system and that of Blue and Green. Before we go any \nfurther, I'd like to know why you draw the connection between Mother and \nAbia. (I think the story draws a blatant connection between Mother and the \nUrth tyrant Scylla whom Typhon's daughter conspired with against her \nfather)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wonder if Mucor is able to assist with the transference of the psyches \nothers--kind of like a human Sacred Window. If she could appear to the \nblind Pig, she may have offered to release the trapped PasSilk." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "PasSilk? I believe the god in Pig was Silver Silk. The fact that Pig sees \nMucur seems to suggest that she does not actually travel through space but \nimprints her image on the minds of those to whom she appears." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "She may also have been removing some rider from Babbie when Horn returned \nto Maytera's island with her eye. ...either Echidna, some part of \nEchidna, or even part of herself...a sort of recording mechanism by which \nMucor could plant part of herself, then retrieve it later and access its \nmemory." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Again...why Echidna?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't doubt that some of these questions have been answered \nbefore...searching the Urth archives can be kind of frustrating, \nthough--lots of slogging through barely related material." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Very little in \"The Short Sun\" has been answered to my satisfaction. Thanks \nfor starting the thread.\n:-)\n\n~ Crush " } ] } ] }