{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4432", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4432, "subject": "cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "messages": 21, "voices": 10, "first": "2005-06-02T14:37:00+00:00", "last": "2005-06-11T20:38:35+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<20050602213656.36325.qmail@web32402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "don doggett", "address": "kingwukong at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2005-06-02T14:37:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I googled to see if this had been touched on in the\narchives and I didn't find anything, but forgive me if\nI'm going over old ground. I'm in the process of\nreading a collection of short stories by August\nDerleth, set in Lovecraft's universe. The stories are\nquite good so far, and it seems to me that perhaps\nDerleth, rather than Lovecraft, was a greater\ninfluence on Wolfe regarding the nature of Abaia and\nthe rest and their conflict with the Hiero's. The\nvery fact of a conflict seems to bear this out as\nDerleth sets the Great Old Ones (Cthulhu etc) against\nthe Elder Gods who, interestingly enough, reside in\nOrion. There is no such dichotomy in Lovecraft, to\nthe best of my knowledge. There is also mention of\nsome of these creatures living forward in time and\nplenty of references to something thundering in places\nbeneath the earth (the resemblance to the mines of\nsaltus is uncanny). Another persistent theme I have\nnoticed in Derleth's stories is the ability of\nforbidden knowledge to corrupt. The simple reading of\npassages from the Necronomicon or the other evil texts\nfrom these stories is often enough to set a character\non the path to his doom. This makes me wonder about\nSeverian's possession of the Lives of the 17\nMegatherians (isn't that one of the books in his\nsabertache?) and where his loyalties lie.\n\nDon" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20050603074637.46661.qmail@web54208.mail.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "nastler", "address": "nastler at yahoo.dk" }, "date": "2005-06-03T00:46:40+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "<20050602213656.36325.qmail@web32402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Small point; The book 17 Megatherians dosn't go in the\nsabertache, it stays in the library. The \"corrupting\"\ninfluence on Sev probably comes to him through Thecla,\nwho is a good bet for having read 17 Megs...\n\nI'd like to hear more discussion about the Great Old\nOnes / Elder Gods. I think it's only been referenced\nbefore, not chewed to the marrow the way things are\nusually done on this list.... :-)\n\nnastler\n\n\n--- don doggett skrev:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I googled to see if this had been touched on in the\narchives and I didn't find anything, but forgive me\nif\nI'm going over old ground. I'm in the process of\nreading a collection of short stories by August\nDerleth, set in Lovecraft's universe. The stories\nare\nquite good so far, and it seems to me that perhaps\nDerleth, rather than Lovecraft, was a greater\ninfluence on Wolfe regarding the nature of Abaia and\nthe rest and their conflict with the Hiero's. The\nvery fact of a conflict seems to bear this out as\nDerleth sets the Great Old Ones (Cthulhu etc)\nagainst\nthe Elder Gods who, interestingly enough, reside in\nOrion. There is no such dichotomy in Lovecraft, to\nthe best of my knowledge. There is also mention of\nsome of these creatures living forward in time and\nplenty of references to something thundering in\nplaces\nbeneath the earth (the resemblance to the mines of\nsaltus is uncanny). Another persistent theme I have\nnoticed in Derleth's stories is the ability of\nforbidden knowledge to corrupt. The simple reading\nof\npassages from the Necronomicon or the other evil\ntexts\nfrom these stories is often enough to set a\ncharacter\non the path to his doom. This makes me wonder about\nSeverian's possession of the Lives of the 17\nMegatherians (isn't that one of the books in his\nsabertache?) and where his loyalties lie.\n\nDon\n\n__________________________________________________\nDo You Yahoo!?\nTired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam\nprotection around \nhttp://mail.yahoo.com \n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2005-06-03T05:50:11+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "<20050603074637.46661.qmail@web54208.mail.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "nastler writes: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Small point; The book 17 Megatherians dosn't go in the\nsabertache, it stays in the library. The \"corrupting\"\ninfluence on Sev probably comes to him through Thecla,\nwho is a good bet for having read 17 Megs... \n\nI'd like to hear more discussion about the Great Old\nOnes / Elder Gods. I think it's only been referenced\nbefore, not chewed to the marrow the way things are\nusually done on this list.... :-) \n\nnastler" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I honestly don't think there is much direct reference. \n\nHowever, Lovecraft's \"Old Ones\" were really non-supernatural alien entities \nof such power that they could not be distinguished from gods, from the human \nperspective. \n\nIt's arguable that he was the first really influential writer to do this - \nto address the idea of gods, from a rigorously non-supernatural perspective. \n\nWolfe has many non-omnipotent \"gods\" of this type: Erebus and Abia are \ngodlike in their power as far as humans are concerned, but there is nothing \nreally supernatural about them. \n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "<2124d6b1050603092713cffcd1@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "pthwndxrclzp", "address": "aquastor at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-06-03T09:27:44+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What exactly are Erebus and Abaia's \"powers\"? Despite lots of scary\nintimations and background threats, it doesn't seem as if we really\nhave much information on what such creatures can do, beyond some kind\nof low-level mind control (and perhaps having their lieutenants \"swim\"\nthrough time upon occasion). Or am I missing something?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Wolfe has many non-omnipotent \"gods\" of this type: Erebus and Abia are\ngodlike in their power as far as humans are concerned, but there is nothing\nreally supernatural about them." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2005-06-03T09:36:46+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "<2124d6b1050603092713cffcd1@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "pthwndxrclzp writes: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "What exactly are Erebus and Abaia's \"powers\"? Despite lots of scary\nintimations and background threats, it doesn't seem as if we really\nhave much information on what such creatures can do, beyond some kind\nof low-level mind control (and perhaps having their lieutenants \"swim\"\nthrough time upon occasion). Or am I missing something?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Much like Cthulhu's. They have half-human submarine servitors; they \ncontrol dreams; they will rise in the last days to take the world. But \nmore to the point they control much of the Urth's surface through their \nenslaved human servants. \n\nThey are not exactly GOO's but then Cthulhu was small beans compared to \nchappies like YogSothoth or Azathoth." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2005-06-03T10:29:48+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I take that \"rise in the last days to take the world\" bit with a grain of \nsalt; it seems more like a bit of standard mythology crusted on to whatever \nthe original story was. The big bad nasties *always* rise in the last days \nto contend for dominion over the world. And any self-respecting \nbig-bad-nasty will make sure everyone fears that, one of these days, it will \nbe back...\n\nAndy said:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Much like Cthulhu's. They have half-human submarine servitors; they \ncontrol dreams; they will rise in the last days to take the world. But \nmore to the point they control much of the Urth's surface through their \nenslaved human servants.\n\nThey are not exactly GOO's but then Cthulhu was small beans compared to \nchappies like YogSothoth or Azathoth." } ] }, { "message_id": "<003001c5686a$5db87940$60a3f63f@wynnhouse>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2005-06-03T11:30:37+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I honestly don't think there is much direct reference." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Maybe, maybe not. But there is some evidence that Wolfe wet his whistle on \nLovecraft for THE WIZARD KNIGHT. The only literary reference I know of for \n\"Skai\" is the farmland-belted River SKAI beyond which lies the city of \nUlthar where it is illegal to kill a CAT.\n\n~ Crush" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Maru Dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-06-03T11:47:05+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "<003001c5686a$5db87940$60a3f63f@wynnhouse>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/3/05, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I honestly don't think there is much direct reference." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Maybe, maybe not. But there is some evidence that Wolfe wet his whistle on\nLovecraft for THE WIZARD KNIGHT. The only literary reference I know of for\n\"Skai\" is the farmland-belted River SKAI beyond which lies the city of\nUlthar where it is illegal to kill a CAT.\n\n~ Crush" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I take it that that reference for Skai is drawn for a Lovecraft story?\n\n~Maru" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2005-06-03T11:57:56+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "<003001c5686a$5db87940$60a3f63f@wynnhouse>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Maybe, maybe not. But there is some evidence that Wolfe wet his whistle on \nLovecraft for THE WIZARD KNIGHT. The only literary reference I know of for \n\"Skai\" is the farmland-belted River SKAI beyond which lies the city of \nUlthar where it is illegal to kill a CAT. \n\n~ Crush" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\nWe know Wolfe likes Lovecraft (vide the fake Necronomicon in PEACE) but \ndespite that I don't agree this Skai is in any way related." } ] }, { "message_id": "<005801c56876$08930690$60a3f63f@wynnhouse>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2005-06-03T12:54:42+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I honestly don't think there is much direct reference." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Maybe, maybe not. But there is some evidence that Wolfe wet his whistle on\nLovecraft for THE WIZARD KNIGHT. The only literary reference I know of for\n\"Skai\" is the farmland-belted River SKAI beyond which lies the city of\nUlthar where it is illegal to kill a CAT.\n\n~ Crush" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I take it that that reference for Skai is drawn for a Lovecraft story?\n\n~Maru" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh, yeah, sorry. THE CATS Of ULTHAR among others. " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Maru Dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-06-03T13:40:00+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "<005801c56876$08930690$60a3f63f@wynnhouse>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/3/05, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I honestly don't think there is much direct reference." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Maybe, maybe not. But there is some evidence that Wolfe wet his whistle on\nLovecraft for THE WIZARD KNIGHT. The only literary reference I know of for\n\"Skai\" is the farmland-belted River SKAI beyond which lies the city of\nUlthar where it is illegal to kill a CAT.\n\n~ Crush" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I take it that that reference for Skai is drawn for a Lovecraft story?\n\n~Maru" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Oh, yeah, sorry. THE CATS Of ULTHAR among others." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Fortunately, I don't have to just take your word- I can read it online!\n\nhttp://wikisource.org/wiki/The_Cats_of_Ulthar\nhttp://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/thecatsofulthar.htm\n\nGod bless public domain works!\n\n~Maru" } ] }, { "message_id": "<42A0F434.7030604@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2005-06-03T17:22:17+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Andy Robertson wrote:\nnastler writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Small point; The book 17 Megatherians dosn't go in the\nsabertache, it stays in the library. The \"corrupting\"\ninfluence on Sev probably comes to him through Thecla,\nwho is a good bet for having read 17 Megs...\nI'd like to hear more discussion about the Great Old\nOnes / Elder Gods. I think it's only been referenced\nbefore, not chewed to the marrow the way things are\nusually done on this list.... :-)\nnastler" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I honestly don't think there is much direct reference.\nHowever, Lovecraft's \"Old Ones\" were really non-supernatural alien \nentities of such power that they could not be distinguished from gods, \nfrom the human perspective.\nIt's arguable that he was the first really influential writer to do this \n- to address the idea of gods, from a rigorously non-supernatural \nperspective.\nWolfe has many non-omnipotent \"gods\" of this type: Erebus and Abia are \ngodlike in their power as far as humans are concerned, but there is \nnothing really supernatural about them." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Perhaps; they are certainly an order of being below that of the \nPancreator, but they and their servants have qualities and insights into \n the divine truth beyond that of mere mortals, even if they attmpet to \ndeny that truth. Lovecraft's axioms in the background of his Mythos \nstories do not admit a difference in kind of the natural world and the \nsupernatural forces at work, only that the fallible human mind calls the \nparts of nature that escape its full grasp \"supernatural\" and that the \nnature of these ancient beings are so alien that the mind destructivetly \nfails in its attempt to perceive their character." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20050608024512.99476.qmail@web31905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Sarah Dorrance-Minch", "address": "isobelwren at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2005-06-07T19:45:14+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Andy Robertson wrote:\nI honestly don't think there is much direct\nreference. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can't see any either.\n\n(By way of introduction: Hi, my name's Sarah, my SCA\nfriends call me Midori which I prefer anyway; I\ndiscovered Gene Wolfe and the Timescape books last\nyear, totally by accident, and got hooked. My husband,\nmuch to my amusement, when he saw me reading something\ncalled _In The Shadow of the Torturer_, asked me,\n\"What's that? A romance novel?\" but he got a little\nmore interested when I clobbered him over the head\nwith the book and told him that it was anthropological\nscience fiction.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Wolfe has many non-omnipotent \"gods\" of this type:\nErebus and Abia are \ngodlike in their power as far as humans are\nconcerned, but there is nothing \nreally supernatural about them. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I would LOVE to see a cross-over written by Wolfe and\nSteven Brust. I have no idea how Vlad Taltos and\nSeverian the Lame would encounter each other, although\nI imagine it would probably not be on Urth since I\ncan't see Vlad travelling off his own planet; but\nthere are certain similarities. Gods that aren't\nsupernatural (or really even gods, but might as well\nbe). A mixture of science and magic. Interesting\nantiheroes who are a lot nicer inside than they think\nthey are (the Han Solo syndrome, if you want to call\nit that). Interesting backstory in the form of made-up\nmyths and legends. \n\n\n\nMidori/Sarah\n\nAh, love couldst thou and I conspire/ To grasp this sorry scheme of things entire/ Would we not break it all to bits, and then/ Remold it nearer to the heart's desire - Omar Khayyam\n\nReach me a gentian, give me a torch\nlet me guide myself with the blue, forked torch of this flower\ndown the darker and darker stairs, where blue is darkened on blueness.\n - D.H. Lawrence, \"Bavarian Gentians\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2005-06-07T23:48:45+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "<20050608024512.99476.qmail@web31905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sarah Dorrance-Minch writes: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " \n\n--- Andy Robertson wrote: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I honestly don't think there is much direct\nreference. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I can't see any either. \n\n(By way of introduction: Hi, my name's Sarah, my SCA\nfriends call me Midori which I prefer anyway; " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\n\nWelcome: Guillaume of Dublin (from the Far Isles) here :-) " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I would LOVE to see a cross-over written by Wolfe and\nSteven Brust. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\nNow, I haven't read ANY Brust: is he good??? Is he, uh, Wolfey? \n\n\n hartshorn \n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2005-06-08T01:04:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe and Brust, compare and contrast ;)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Andy Robertson wrote:\nSarah Dorrance-Minch writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I would LOVE to see a cross-over written by Wolfe and\nSteven Brust." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Now, I haven't read ANY Brust: is he good??? Is he, uh, Wolfey?\n\n hartshorn" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You *have* to read at least one of his novels.\n\n_Brokedown Palace_ is pretty indirect. It might be the closest to say\n_Short Sun_. Brust channels Dumas very well too -- I was reading recently\nthat Dumas's dialogue is as it is merely because he was paid by the word.\n\n\nDavid Duffy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Maru Dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-06-08T08:17:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe and Brust, compare and contrast ;)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/8/05, David Duffy wrote:\nOn Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Andy Robertson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Sarah Dorrance-Minch writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I would LOVE to see a cross-over written by Wolfe and\nSteven Brust." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Now, I haven't read ANY Brust: is he good??? Is he, uh, Wolfey?\n\n hartshorn" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You *have* to read at least one of his novels.\n\n_Brokedown Palace_ is pretty indirect. It might be the closest to say\n_Short Sun_. Brust channels Dumas very well too -- I was reading recently\nthat Dumas's dialogue is as it is merely because he was paid by the word.\n\n\nDavid Duffy" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Funny- I heard the same exact thing about Dickens.\nProbably explains why I never could finish 'the Pickwick Papers'.\n\nIncidentally, have you read \"To Reign in Hell\"? That sounds like the\nmost Wolfe-ian of his stuff.\n\n~Maru" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20050611032206.76115.qmail@web31913.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Sarah Dorrance-Minch", "address": "isobelwren at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2005-06-10T20:22:08+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Andy Robertson wrote:\nNow, I haven't read ANY Brust: is he good??? Is\nhe, uh, Wolfey? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Good? I think so. I like his tie-ins to Romanian and\nother eastern European folklore, his filk, his dry\nsense of humour, his ability to make extremely\nantiheroic characters sympathetic, his versatility,\nhis ability to create worlds.\n\nAll of which aside from the ethnic stuff are strengths\nWolfe also has. But is he Wolfey? I wouldn't say so.\nHis style is for the most part far less ruminative.\nYou won't get the philosophical discussions. You will\nget good characterization, style, plot, and\nanthropological interest.\n\n\n\n\n\nMidori/Sarah\n\nAh, love couldst thou and I conspire/ To grasp this sorry scheme of things entire/ Would we not break it all to bits, and then/ Remold it nearer to the heart's desire - Omar Khayyam\n\nReach me a gentian, give me a torch\nlet me guide myself with the blue, forked torch of this flower\ndown the darker and darker stairs, where blue is darkened on blueness.\n - D.H. Lawrence, \"Bavarian Gentians\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20050611032351.59620.qmail@web31904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Sarah Dorrance-Minch", "address": "isobelwren at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2005-06-10T20:23:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe and Brust, compare and contrast ;)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- David Duffy wrote:\n_Brokedown Palace_ is pretty indirect. It might be\nthe closest to say\n_Short Sun_. Brust channels Dumas very well too --\nI was reading recently\nthat Dumas's dialogue is as it is merely because he\nwas paid by the word." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh yeah. Brust is also very good at pastiche." } ] }, { "message_id": "<20050611032740.28323.qmail@web31901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Sarah Dorrance-Minch", "address": "isobelwren at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2005-06-10T20:27:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe and Brust, compare and contrast ;)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Maru Dubshinki wrote:\nIncidentally, have you read \"To Reign in Hell\"? That\nsounds like the\nmost Wolfe-ian of his stuff." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "At least in theme.\n\nI think the series about Vlad Taltos comes closer in\nterms of character development and cultural background\n(a society with distinct castes, a hero whose career\nis less than savoury initially, semidivine beings who\nplay puppet-master behind the scenes, oh so subtly).\n\n\n\nMidori/Sarah\n\nAh, love couldst thou and I conspire/ To grasp this sorry scheme of things entire/ Would we not break it all to bits, and then/ Remold it nearer to the heart's desire - Omar Khayyam\n\nReach me a gentian, give me a torch\nlet me guide myself with the blue, forked torch of this flower\ndown the darker and darker stairs, where blue is darkened on blueness.\n - D.H. Lawrence, \"Bavarian Gentians\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2005-06-11T01:29:00+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "<20050611032206.76115.qmail@web31913.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sarah Dorrance-Minch writes: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Good? I think so. I like his tie-ins to Romanian and\nother eastern European folklore, his filk" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\nHe perpetrates filks? This is problematic ;-)" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20050612033822.59041.qmail@web31907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Sarah Dorrance-Minch", "address": "isobelwren at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2005-06-11T20:38:35+00:00", "subject": "SV: (urth) cthulhu mythos, BotNS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Andy Robertson wrote:\nHe perpetrates filks? This is problematic ;-)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think he was one of the original instigators of the\nmovement. \n\n\n\nMidori/Sarah\n\nAh, love couldst thou and I conspire/ To grasp this sorry scheme of things entire/ Would we not break it all to bits, and then/ Remold it nearer to the heart's desire - Omar Khayyam\n\nReach me a gentian, give me a torch\nlet me guide myself with the blue, forked torch of this flower\ndown the darker and darker stairs, where blue is darkened on blueness.\n - D.H. Lawrence, \"Bavarian Gentians\"" } ] } ] }