{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4441",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4441,
    "subject": "TWK - Why Able?",
    "messages": 3,
    "voices": 3,
    "first": "2005-06-09T07:47:40+00:00",
    "last": "2005-06-09T09:43:19+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<20050609144713.29099.qmail@web52705.mail.yahoo.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "thapaguru",
        "address": "thapaguru at yahoo.com"
      },
      "date": "2005-06-09T07:47:40+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) TWK - Why Able?",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Hello all,\n\nI've recently joined this organization and have been\nreading through the older often excellent posts. I've\nbeen a Wolfe reader for the last year or so, since\npicking up BotNS and have just finished the Wizard\nKnight. My impression - Wolfe can do no wrong.\n\nTo be succint, my questions:\n\n1) Since the good guys are outnumbered and possibly\noutgunned, I recognize the need for reserves from\nlower dimensions. But why does Michael want Able?\nWouldn't he be better satisfied with a presumably\nwiser and strong Overcyn?\n\n2) I came out with the impression that Baki did indeed\nstab Gilling the first time (like Uri said) and that\nGarvaon finished the job the second time. Am I wrong?\n\n3) I'm not of a Christian background (Hindu rather)\nand I was wondering if I was correct in assuming that\nAble falling down twice after giving blood to Disiri\nrefers to the pre-crucifiction trip Christ made.\n\nThank for your time.\n\n\n\t\t"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<1f761737050609091449abe1ff@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes",
        "address": "danldo at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2005-06-09T09:17:14+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) TWK - Why Able?",
      "in_reply_to": "<20050609144713.29099.qmail@web52705.mail.yahoo.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Hi, and welcome to the mailinglist."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "1) Since the good guys are outnumbered and possibly\noutgunned, I recognize the need for reserves from\nlower dimensions. But why does Michael want Able?\nWouldn't he be better satisfied with a presumably\nwiser and strong Overcyn?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Able seems to be King Arthur in some form. There are \nclues to this all throughout, but the clincher is the last \ntwo words of the story - he signs the lengthy letter (that\nis the novel) by his Earth name, \"Art Ormsby.\" \"Ormsby\"\ncan be translated \"of the worm.\" Thus, his name is a\nform of \"Arthur Pendragon.\""
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "2) I came out with the impression that Baki did indeed\nstab Gilling the first time (like Uri said) and that\nGarvaon finished the job the second time. Am I wrong?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I'm sure that Baki did stab Gilling; I'm not as sure about\nGarvaon."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "3) I'm not of a Christian background (Hindu rather)\nand I was wondering if I was correct in assuming that\nAble falling down twice after giving blood to Disiri\nrefers to the pre-crucifiction trip Christ made."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "That would certainly be one possible interpretation. Wolfe\ndefinitely uses a lot of Christian imagery in his novels,\nmost blatantly (in my opinion) in the eucharistic scenes \nin the Book of the Short Sun.\n\n--Dan'l"
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him.\n                        -- St Teresa of Avila\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<003701c56d12$551781d0$f7555b45@wynnhouse>",
      "from": {
        "name": "James Wynn",
        "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net"
      },
      "date": "2005-06-09T09:43:19+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) TWK - Why Able?",
      "in_reply_to": "<20050609144713.29099.qmail@web52705.mail.yahoo.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Welcome, Thapaguru!"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "1) Since the good guys are outnumbered and possibly\noutgunned, I recognize the need for reserves from\nlower dimensions. But why does Michael want Able?\nWouldn't he be better satisfied with a presumably\nwiser and strong Overcyn?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Well, Able is an Overcyn, right? Are you saying \"why not Valfather?\" Well, I\ngathered that Michael reckons things 4th dimensionally differently from\npeople of the other levels. After his first meeting with Able, he tells him\nthat he is going to search for \"that great and famous knight, Sir Able of\nthe High Heart\".  The meaning is: The Able at that point in the book was not\nthe Able Michael sought.\n\nAble himself seems to see things in this way. He recognizes that he became a\nknight by wanting to be one, taking the title, bearing the responsibilities.\nOnly later did he receive the accolade from Disiri and do knightly deeds.\n\nI'd say that the fact that Michael sought Able out meant that at the end of\nthe story he was already a greater Overcyn than Valfather."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "2) I came out with the impression that Baki did indeed\nstab Gilling the first time (like Uri said) and that\nGarvaon finished the job the second time. Am I wrong?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "I'm sure that Baki did stab Gilling; I'm not as sure about\nGarvaon."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "IIRC The text explicitly denies that Baki stabbed Gilling. But then again,\nfrequently I also accept Wolfe's textual denials as confirmations,\n so I'm not gainsaying it. I am definite that Garvaon did the deed the\nsecond time (I presume the first) since Able is unwilling name the assailant\nto protect the honor of his name. I don't think he would worry about that\nfor Baki."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "3) I'm not of a Christian background (Hindu rather)\nand I was wondering if I was correct in assuming that\nAble falling down twice after giving blood to Disiri\nrefers to the pre-crucifixion trip Christ made."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Hmmm I didn't even think of this. According to Catholic tradition, Christ\nfell THREE times on the Via Dolorosa. Maybe you missed one? (I don't have\naccess to my books)\n\nhttp://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15569a.htm"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}