{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4447", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4447, "subject": "5HC : Unbound Simulator", "messages": 9, "voices": 7, "first": "2005-06-16T06:20:31+00:00", "last": "2005-06-17T17:02:11+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<20050616131953.77237.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jim Raylor", "address": "rjraylor at yahoo.co.uk" }, "date": "2005-06-16T06:20:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) 5HC : Unbound Simulator", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My own theories on the significance of M. Million\nbeing an unbound simulator are probably idiosyncratic.\n\nPlayfully I will suggest the M. stands for M. Million,\nmaking his full name Million Million Million etc.\n\nThis distinguishes him from a finite or bound\nsimulator.\nGiven infinite processing capacity could a machine\nsimulate humanity? It has been observed elsewhere thet\nM. Million seems the most humane member of the\nhousehold...\n\nAlso pure word association makes me think of\nPrometheus.\n\nViewing 5HOC as a whodunnit, or more precisely a\nwhodunwhat, M Million should not be disregarded as a\nsuspect but I personally believe him innocent of\nmurder.\n\nSome aspects of this character (M. M.) are reminiscent\nof Ossipago\n\nhttp://prisoner143.50megs.com/\n\nI am not a number I am a free person!\n\n\n\t\n\t\n\t\t" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f761737050616072153968585@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-06-16T07:21:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) 5HC : Unbound Simulator", "in_reply_to": "<20050616131953.77237.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/16/05, Jim Raylor wrote:\nPlayfully I will suggest the M. stands for M. Million,\nmaking his full name Million Million Million etc." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ummm... I think it's short for \"Monsieur.\"\n\n--Dan'l" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him.\n -- St Teresa of Avila\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2005-06-16T10:55:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) 5HC : Unbound Simulator", "in_reply_to": "<20050616131953.77237.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Given infinite processing capacity could a machine\nsimulate humanity? It has been observed elsewhere thet\nM. Million seems the most humane member of the\nhousehold..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Most sentimental, perhaps, although it's hard to get a handle on Five's \nsentimentality with the way he writes; such things may be systematically \nomitted, from embarrassment or whatever reason. It certainly does seem that \nFive has passions under the surface of what he writes, and he is certainly \ncapable of profound hatred.\n\nWith regard to simulating humanity, I would suggest that the question is \npurely grammatical. Can you pretend to think? Well, it would seem like if \nyou really went through the motions you would *be* thinking, not just \npretending. \"But couldn't I do everything else I normally do when thinking, \nbut not think?\" -- well, you could perhaps scrunch up your eyes and make a \nface without thinking (much), such that it would fool an outside observer. \nBut is scrunching up your eyes and making a face necessary to thinking at \nall - I mean, you are not pretending to *think*, you are just making faces, \nand making faces has nothing to do with thinking.\n\nSimilarly \"humanity\" - I assume we're not talking about the trivial \nbiological sense of the term - is not something that can be simulated. If we \ngrammatically allow that machine is the kind of thing which *can* simulate \nhumanity, then if it behaves in such and such a way it is not *simulating* \nhumanity, it is *being* human. And on the other hand if you assume that a \nmachine is not the kind of thing which can do that, then its behaving in \nsuch and such a way is not simulating humanity *or* being human, it is \nsimply a meaningless conjunction of circumstances." } ] }, { "message_id": "<6.2.0.14.0.20050616200223.03762390@pop.gmx.net>", "from": { "name": "Hmpf MacSlow", "address": "hmpf1998 at gmx.net" }, "date": "2005-06-16T11:08:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Is this a BotNS illustration?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://www.elevenland.com/amano/view.php3?picName=The+Claw+of+the+Conciliator&picImage=pic16.JPG\n\nWhat do you think? It doesn't really *look* like anything I remember from \nthe book... but why else call the picture 'The Claw of the Conciliator'? \nThe artist is Yoshitaka Amano, a renowned fantasy illustrator who \ncollaborated with Neil Gaiman on 'Sandman: The Dream Hunters'. He seems to \nlike doing random illustrations for fantasy stuff - there's some Elric \nillustrations on that website, too. Basically, high-calibre fan art. *g*\n\nAnyway... if that is supposed to be a Wolfe illustration, then what do you \nsuppose it's meant to be? Is this Severian? (Surely not!)\n\nHm.\n\nHmpf\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n---\n\"I don't get out much, so I read.\"\nPilot, Farscape " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2005-06-16T13:56:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Is this a BotNS illustration?", "in_reply_to": "<6.2.0.14.0.20050616200223.03762390@pop.gmx.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hmpf MacSlow writes: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.elevenland.com/amano/view.php3?picName=The+Claw+of+the+Concilia \ntor&picImage=pic16.JPG \n\nWhat do you think? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\nElric. " } ] }, { "message_id": "<6.2.0.14.0.20050616231758.037a36c8@pop.gmx.net>", "from": { "name": "Hmpf MacSlow", "address": "hmpf1998 at gmx.net" }, "date": "2005-06-16T14:38:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Is this a BotNS illustration?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 10:56 PM 6/16/2005, you wrote:\nHmpf MacSlow writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "http://www.elevenland.com/amano/view.php3?picName=The+Claw+of+the+Concilia \ntor&picImage=pic16.JPG\nWhat do you think?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Elric." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nah. He did Elric, too, but Elric was usually clearly identified as Elric. \n(Actually he's apparently the official Michael Moorcock illustrator in \nJapan - I've done some research ;-))\n\nHere's some of his Elric stuff:\n\nhttp://www.amanosworld.com/html/work/moorcock.html\n\nI can't really see Severian in the 'Claw of the Conciliator' pic, either, \nand I can't think of anyone it *could* be - but neither do I see why Amano \nwould title that pic thus if it wasn't intended as some form of Wolfe \nillustration.\n\nActually, what throws me most is the apparently white/grey/silver hair.\n\nOf course, there is the possibility that the website may have attributed \nthe wrong title to the pic, quite simply.\n\nHmpf\n\n\n\n\n\n---\n\"Everyone get out of the plot and help me push.\"\nPatrick O'Shaughnessy: Triangle & Robert " } ] }, { "message_id": "<20050617034237.69247.qmail@web31906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Sarah Dorrance-Minch", "address": "isobelwren at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2005-06-16T20:42:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Is this a BotNS illustration?", "in_reply_to": "<6.2.0.14.0.20050616200223.03762390@pop.gmx.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Hmpf MacSlow wrote:\nAnyway... if that is supposed to be a Wolfe\nillustration, then what do you \nsuppose it's meant to be? Is this Severian? (Surely\nnot!)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not quite how I originally pictured Severian, but it\ncould work. \n\nI like the artist. I have _The Dream Hunters_, but\nthis is the first I've seen of his other work. Some of\nit is reminiscent of Klimt, and I like Klimt.\n\n\n\n\n\nMidori/Sarah\n\nAh, love couldst thou and I conspire/ To grasp this sorry scheme of things entire/ Would we not break it all to bits, and then/ Remold it nearer to the heart's desire - Omar Khayyam\n\nReach me a gentian, give me a torch\nlet me guide myself with the blue, forked torch of this flower\ndown the darker and darker stairs, where blue is darkened on blueness.\n - D.H. Lawrence, \"Bavarian Gentians\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "<23820.1119000155@www68.gmx.net>", "from": { "name": "Christina Hansen", "address": "hmpf1998 at gmx.net" }, "date": "2005-06-17T02:22:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Is this a BotNS illustration?", "in_reply_to": "<20050617034237.69247.qmail@web31906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I like the artist. I have _The Dream Hunters_, but\nthis is the first I've seen of his other work. Some of\nit is reminiscent of Klimt, and I like Klimt." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If you like Amano check out the movie 'Angel's Egg' he worked on with Mamoru\nOshii. It's *very* Wolfean in regards to atmosphere, and even more\nincomprehensible than your average Wolfe. I also suspect there's some\nreligious/philosophical stuff going on in it, but even the writer/director\nadmits (or claims) he has no clue what it's about. ;-)\n\nThere's a fan page for it:\n\nhttp://www.cultivatetwiddle.com/angelsegg/\n\nHmpf" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Weitersagen: GMX DSL-Flatrates mit Tempo-Garantie!\nAb 4,99 Euro/Monat: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl" } ] }, { "message_id": "<14408475.1119052928413.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2005-06-17T17:02:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) 5HC : Unbound Simulator", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sandwalker is simulator of a human being. Also, as a Shadow Child, he personality is bound with the other Shadow Children. He is also connected to his twin brother. So he is a bound simulator.\n\n~ Crush " } ] } ] }