{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4448",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4448,
    "subject": "\"There Are Doors\"",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2005-06-16T06:59:06+00:00",
    "last": "2005-06-16T11:01:47+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<6.2.1.2.0.20050616075732.042328f0@pop.vippn.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dan",
        "address": "autarch at vippn.com"
      },
      "date": "2005-06-16T06:59:06+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re:  \"There Are Doors\"",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Jun 2, 2005, at 7:34 PM, Dan wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Oddly enough, i just finished reading There Are Doors this morning.\n\nIt was the best Philip K. Dick novel I ever read that was not written\nby Philip K. Dick.\n\nWhat of Mr. Klamm's relationship to Mr. Green? Same guy at two\ndifferent times or just two different blokes in the same circumstances\n(only one is beginiing his pursuit and the other nearing the end)?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Hi,\n\nIt's been a while since I've read it so I won't answer this here, but,\nif you haven't already, read _The Castle_ by Kafka.  It really deepens\nthe experience, and a lot of things will fall into different\nperspectives..\n\nenjoy,\nAdrian"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Thanks Adrian. Though Kafka's been highly recommended before, I just never \ngot around to reading him. The new translation sounds interesting.\n\nI seem to be accumulating a list of prerequisites needed to expand my \nappreciation of Wolfe and reveal the subtleties of his works. It currently \nincludes learning Latin and getting a Master's in Classic Mythology!\n\n\nFrom: \"Chris\" <rasputin_ at hotmail.com:\n\n   Klamm could best be described as a priest (perhaps the high priest) of"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Cybele/Rhea. The same could be said to be true of Green, but Green is also\nsupposedly Attis/Dionysus. Since the priests of Cybele actually emulate\nAttis, there's obviously going to be a close, apparent relationship there.\nBut I think we are led to believe that Green is \"the real deal\", so to\nspeak."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I was thinking of the way Klamm refers to Green as Herr K and his later \napology and explanation as to why. It just seemed like one of those weird \nmoments like in 2001 where Dave Bowman turns around and sees his older self \nlying in bed. If that was the case, interesting that Klamm didn't try to \nwarn him off his pursuit, or that Green was so blinded by desire that he \ndidn't have the insight to deduce Klamm's identity.\n\nDan"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<B2D8E14E-DE90-11D9-A520-000A956A659C@cogsci.ucsd.edu>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Adrian Robert",
        "address": "arobert at cogsci.ucsd.edu"
      },
      "date": "2005-06-16T11:01:47+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re:  \"There Are Doors\"",
      "in_reply_to": "<6.2.1.2.0.20050616075732.042328f0@pop.vippn.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "On Jun 16, 2005, at 9:58 AM, Dan wrote:\nOn Jun 2, 2005, at 7:34 PM, Dan wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "Oddly enough, i just finished reading There Are Doors this morning.\n\nIt was the best Philip K. Dick novel I ever read that was not \nwritten\nby Philip K. Dick.\n\nWhat of Mr. Klamm's relationship to Mr. Green? Same guy at two\ndifferent times or just two different blokes in the same \ncircumstances\n(only one is beginiing his pursuit and the other nearing the end)?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Hi,\n\nIt's been a while since I've read it so I won't answer this here, but,\nif you haven't already, read _The Castle_ by Kafka.  It really deepens\nthe experience, and a lot of things will fall into different\nperspectives..\n\nenjoy,\nAdrian"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Thanks Adrian. Though Kafka's been highly recommended before, I just \nnever got around to reading him. The new translation sounds \ninteresting."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "New translation, hmm..  I just read part of it at Amazon:\n\n\nOld (Willa and Edwin Muir)\n----\nIt was late in the evening when K. arrived.  The village was deep in \nsnow.  The Castle hill was hidden, veiled in mist and darkness, nor was \nthere even a glimmer of light to show that a castle was there.  On the \nwooden bridge leading from the main road to the village, K. stood for a \nlong time gazing into the illusory emptiness above him.\n\nNew (Mark Harman)\n----\nIt was late evening when K. arrived.  The village lay under deep snow.  \nThere was no sign of the Castle hill, fog and darkness surrounded it, \nnot even the faintest gleam of light suggested the large Castle.  K. \nstood for a long time on the wooden bridge that leads from the main \nroad to the village, gazing upward into the seeming emptiness.\n\n\nI can't say I much care for the new one myself, but, more pertinently, \nthis sort of evident freedom of the translator to determine the whole \ntone of the text sometimes discourages one from reading translations at \nall!  But short of learning German, you should definitely read several \npages of every translation you can find and pick the one that suits \nyourself, regardless of which is supposedly \"better\" according to \ncurrent fashion or anyone's opinion.\n\n(Especially when that opinion as in lauding the new translation speaks \nof preserving the \"author's intentions\", a ludicrous ideal, when the \nauthor was still editing (and writing!) the works when he died, and \nindeed deemed them so unfinished and unworthy as to request the \nmanuscripts all be burned immediately.)\n\nAnyway, your message talked me into scrounging up some Philip K. Dick \n(additional to DADOES), which at least won't have these problems..\n\n\nAdrian"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}