{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4454",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4454,
    "subject": "BOTNS :Sev's Dad (redux)",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2005-06-17T17:50:27+00:00",
    "last": "2005-06-17T17:50:27+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<23303334.1119055824529.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "James Wynn",
        "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net"
      },
      "date": "2005-06-17T17:50:27+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) BOTNS :Sev's Dad (redux)",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Gads! That unwrapped text in the online view at the urth.net site was so annoying, I'm resending this email.\n\nIf you are reading this in an email application, my apologies. Just delete this second email (like you probably did with the original).\n\n~ Crush"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Borski's theory that Ouen is Severiam's father depends\nheavily on the Owen Tudor(anag. Trudo)/ Katherine\nstory which I don't pretend to know."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "The Typhon as Dad theory is new to me, but what do I\nknow?\nFirst time I read it, I thought the Father was called\nInire!"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Should we have a poll?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Vote for who you think is Sev's Dad... supporting\nevidence welcome, especially genetic stuff!"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "When Don posted his clone theory a couple years ago, I thought it was interesting and quaint but a little \"out\nthere\". Now, having read The Short Sun and knowing that Severian's crypt in the necropolis is Typhon's family\ncrypt, I take it more seriously.  And having come to the conclusion that Piaton is Typhon's son (whom we have\ncome to know as Hieros), I'm very favorable to the likelihood that Severian is a clone of Piaton.\n\nThat doesn't rule out Ouen being Severian's \"Dad\" just as Maitre was #5's \"dad\" and Tussah was Silk's. But it\n*would* make Typhon Severians bio-dad as well. It doesn't rule Ouen out as being Sev's brother or twin as well,\nfor that matter. So my vote is that Typhon and Ouen are Severian's dads.\n\nEvidence? (deep breath) Well first of all, at the end of The Short Sun, The Narrator and little Scylla (whose real\nname escapes me), Typhon's daughter, tell young Severian they are looking for her crypt and Severian takes\nthem to one...he doesn't help them find one, he takes them to it. Which crypt would that be but the one he hangs\nout in? There are plenty of literary clues that the crypt actually is Severian's somehow so I say Severian is of the\nhouse of Typhon. \n\nI also believe that the failed overthrow of Pas in the Mainframe of the Whorl was duplicated by Typhon's actual\nfamily on Urth. After all,  at the time of her scanning little Scylla herself was already conspiring with big Urthian\ntyrant Scylla against her father, so isn't it likely that the originals of the rest of the revolting Mainframe\nsimulations were doing the same thing as well? If I'm right, then on Urth (after the Whorl set sail) the human\noriginals of Hieros, Molpe, Scylla, and Echidna (and maybe others) attempted unsuccessfully to overthrow Typhon\nand (just as Pas erased those usurpers from the Mainframe) he had them put to death (Hieros excepted but we'll\nget to that). The blind human original of Tartaros aided his father's victory over them.\n\nThe rest of my evidence rests on extremely involved proofs regarding (blonde) Silk's and (dark) Awk's ancestry\nand the fact that Wolfe treats them purely thematically but undeniably as the same person.  I won't flog you with\nthat, except to say that I have become convinced that Piaton=Hieros and that Typhon took his body as\npunishment for his crimes. Perhaps Typhon's original body was even damaged beyond repair, I can't say.\n\nSo who is the male corpse Severian sits around contemplating? Typhon? Nope, his body would be headless.\nHieros?  Not in my opinion and if I'm right, it is up on that mountian. The only named candidate left in Typhon's\nfamily is blind Tartaros.\n\nNow even if you agree that Severian is a clone of a member of Typhon's house, you might still argue that the\nbody in the crypt *has* to be Severian somehow, not his \"brother\". While that is reasonable, I am convinced that\nPiaton=Hieros, the Whorl's god of Death, is more like Severian than the god of thieves (and, yes, I know, even of\ndarkness) and I am asthetically inclined to the idea of Hieros overthrowing Pas again through a suicide conspiracy\nbetween Severian and Piaton.\n\n~ Crush"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}