# Elementary *The Urth list — 13 messages, 8 voices, 25 Aug 2005* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Dan *25 Aug 2005, 03:43* > All good points: but what does it mean that Number 5 cannot find any books? > > ~Maru Because they've all been checked out and are being read by avid (or should that be rabid?) fans! Dan --- ### Los Arboles Del Frio *25 Aug 2005, 03:47 · in reply to Dan* > Because they've all been checked out and are being read by avid (or should > that be rabid?) fans! Or because that library has none, maybe? --- ### Maru Dubshinki *25 Aug 2005, 20:29 · in reply to Los Arboles Del Frio* > On 8/25/05, Los Arboles Del Frio wrote: >> Because they've all been checked out and are being read by avid (or >> should >> that be rabid?) fans! > Or because that library has none, maybe? Not to be snippy, that was what I was asking: if his 'father' has written a whole roomful of books like the lady said, and we are correct in identifying the original as Gene Wolfe, where are the books? Gene Wolfe is popular. Two possibilities: A) this whole question is an anacrhonism; Wolfe had no way of knowing he would be a success and go on to write many fairly popular books; B) we are wrong in our premise that the "masion du chien" = Wolfe ~Maru --- ### Chris *26 Aug 2005, 01:15 · in reply to Maru Dubshinki* Does this take that much agonizing? The fact that Gene Wolfe is popular now is irrelevant, unless you're claiming that somehow Wolfe somehow should have known back then that he would be as popular an author as Vinge. Even if you assume he made that presumption, when you think about it it would be a relative miracle for a book by Vinge or Wolfe to have survived and made its way into a library on a planet circling another star. Maru said: > Not to be snippy, that was what I was asking: if his 'father' has written a > whole roomful of books > like the lady said, and we are correct in identifying the original as Gene > Wolfe, where are the books? > Gene Wolfe is popular. > Two possibilities: A) this whole question is an anacrhonism; Wolfe had no > way of knowing he would be a success > and go on to write many fairly popular books; B) we are wrong in our > premise > that the "masion du chien" = Wolfe > > ~Maru > _______________________________________________ --- ### mournings glory *26 Aug 2005, 09:52 · in reply to Maru Dubshinki* Maru D. writes: > Not to be snippy, that was what I was asking: if his 'father' has written a > whole roomful of books > like the lady said, and we are correct in identifying the original as Gene > Wolfe, where are the books? Almost certainly any books written by Maitre would be in the non-fiction sections of the stacks--something the very young Number Five may not yet have conceptualized. (Hmmm, wonder if they use the Dewey Decimal System way out there on Saint Croix?) But perhaps more importantly, two of the books #5 does find are _Monday or Tuesday_ by Virginia Woolf and _The Great Prince Died_ by Bernard Wolfe. Surely, you can see the pattern, no matter how much they jibe against your chien = wolf animadversion? msg --- ### David Lebling *26 Aug 2005, 13:14 · in reply to mournings glory* > Maru D. writes: > Almost certainly any books written by Maitre would be in the non-fiction > sections of the stacks--something the very young Number Five may not yet > have conceptualized. (Hmmm, wonder if they use the Dewey Decimal System > way > out there on Saint Croix?) As I recall, one of the other books he finds is _The Mile-long Spaceship_ by Kate Wilhelm, which he (mistakenly) believes has been misshelved from the astronautics section, so he clearly knows the difference between fiction and non-fiction. -- Dave Lebling, aka vizcacha --- ### Maru Dubshinki *26 Aug 2005, 14:14 · in reply to David Lebling* > On 8/26/05, David Lebling wrote: >> Maru D. writes: >> Almost certainly any books written by Maitre would be in the non-fiction >> sections of the stacks--something the very young Number Five may not yet >> have conceptualized. (Hmmm, wonder if they use the Dewey Decimal System >> way >> out there on Saint Croix?) > As I recall, one of the other books he finds is _The Mile-long Spaceship_ > by > Kate Wilhelm, which he (mistakenly) believes has been misshelved from the > astronautics section, so he clearly knows the difference between fiction > and > non-fiction. > > -- Dave Lebling, aka vizcacha Thta is what my edition reads as as well. I've never heard of "The Great Prince Dies". ~Maru --- ### mournings glory *26 Aug 2005, 15:32 · in reply to Maru Dubshinki* Maru writes: > I've never heard of "The Great Prince Dies". It's the "book about the assassination of Trotsky" that Number Five finds next to Virginia Woolf's _Monday or Tuesday_ and was written by Bernard Wolfe, who, besides having been a bodyguard for Trotsky in Mexico, also wrote in various genres and was a frequent contributer to Playboy. His only sf novel is _Limbo_ (once hailed by JG Ballard as the best American sf novel), but when Gene Wolfe first began to make a name for himself, he may have been frequently asked if he was related to this other Wolfe (let alone Tom and Thomas). For more info see either Clute's _Encyclopedia_ or Harlan Ellison's intro to B. Wolfe's stories in _Again, Dangerous Visions_ . Also, while I have your attention: the Linnaean binomial for wolf is "Canis lupus," and it's a well-established fact that wolves and dogs can interbreed. Biologically, it can even be argued they are the same species, and while "chien" and "loup" are not perfect synonyms like "car" and "auto," the difference is more an artificial distinction than an actual one. C5H9NO4 (he, he) --- ### James Wynn *26 Aug 2005, 16:02 · in reply to mournings glory* > ["The Great Prince Dies" is] the "book about the assassination of Trotsky" > that Number Five finds next to Virginia Woolf's _Monday or Tuesday_ and > was written by Bernard Wolfe, who, besides having been a bodyguard for > Trotsky in Mexico, also wrote in various genres and was a frequent > contributer to Playboy. His only > sf novel is _Limbo_ (once hailed by JG Ballard as the best American sf > novel)... Actually, the section Number Five is looking in seems to be the "science fiction authors" section; that is, any authors who have written science fiction. The library seems to organize its books the way I do rather than according to the DDS. Apparently, the original or one of his clones had written SF or had written something (like his life story) that was believed to be SF. J --- ### Jeff Wilson *26 Aug 2005, 22:46 · in reply to James Wynn* > James Wynn wrote: > Apparently, the original or one of his clones had written SF or had written > something (like his life story) that was believed to be SF. Or maybe, with typical family tunnel vision, 5 continues going up to the section he's already familiar with from younger desires for more story books. Besides, it's up some rickety stairs at the top of the dome, where Mister Million can't follow and his voice would be hardest to hear. ``` Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson > ``` --- ### Jeff Wilson *26 Aug 2005, 23:06 · in reply to Chris* > Chris wrote: > Does this take that much agonizing? The fact that Gene Wolfe is popular > now is irrelevant, unless you're claiming that somehow Wolfe somehow > should have known back then that he would be as popular an author as > Vinge. Even if you assume he made that presumption, when you think about > it it would be a relative miracle for a book by Vinge or Wolfe to have > survived and made its way into a library on a planet circling another star. It's a BIG library as described, and the locals could not hope to have produced enough writings of note in their debased state of civilizational devolution. Given the political history also described, wholesale re-printing of English-language books from Earth could be a conscious culture war stratagem. The authorities depicted as never throwing anything written away, though they are fairly indifferent about keeping it up. Some or all of the above may be a reflection of GW's experiences with his alma mater, complete with autocratic unformed authoritarians, neoclassical buildings plopped down in the middle of the wilderness to establish Anglophone civilization where former continental colonies had been, libraries crammed with books but relatively little care given them, even the lengthy evening sunlight during the play is to be found there. Oh, and the vivisection as well, lest we forget. ``` Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson > ``` --- ### Chris *27 Aug 2005, 01:47 · in reply to Jeff Wilson* > Jeff Wilson wrote: > Some or all of the above may be a reflection of GW's experiences with his > alma mater... > Oh, and the vivisection as well, lest we forget. ... ... What? Civet --- ### Jeff Wilson *27 Aug 2005, 13:18 · in reply to Chris* > Chris wrote: > Jeff Wilson wrote: >> Some or all of the above may be a reflection of GW's experiences with >> his alma mater... >> Oh, and the vivisection as well, lest we forget. > ... > ... > What? Texas A&M has a prominent veterinary school, it occupies several buildings on campus, some decorated with sculpted animal skulls. Part of the curriculum involves practicing surgical procedures on live animals. Now that I think about it, the university is a fair microcosm of Urthian architechture and geography, compressed in time as well as space. It has sprawled noticeably between my leaving 17 years ago and my latest visit this spring, but even during GW's matriculation it apparently had occupational segregation, hidden nooks and forgotten alcoves, disparate parts connected via tunnel, technical wonders alongside agrarian commonality, ritual fire of cannon far older and longer at peace than their operators were old. There's even a bronze fasces forming the base of the flagpole at the old center of campus! I'll have to seriously think about compiling a LEXICON TEXAS with some of these factoids some day. ``` Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson > ``` ---