Subject: (urth) changes

From: aramini1 at cox.net <aramini1 at cox.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:02:21 +0000

As an addendum to my previous posts, the most startling change is the one that overtakes Svon.  He runs repeatedly throughout, is trounced by Toug who becomes his squire, and then winds up marrying Idnn and wearing Ravd's armor, fighting valiantly and bravely.  When does this change occur?  Why?  Are we to believe that he stayed and protected Ravd's body?  I think so, because the ghost of Ravd appears watching over him as he walks down a hall, according to Toug. Either that, or Ravd forgives him his weakness.

Even Toug's sister goes off looking to find Able, and instead finds a stable family life that she is satisfied with.  Its as if everybody gets what they want, but not exactly how they first envisioned it.

Marc Aramini

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From: James Wynn <thewynns at earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:17:57 +0000

Are we to believe that [Svon] stayed and protected Ravd's body?  I think so,
because the ghost of Ravd appears watching over him as he walks down a hall,
according to Toug. Either that, or Ravd forgives him his weakness.

I think Able intimates that Svon's honor was unjustly harmed by a whispering
campaign that he had deserted Ravd. Svon had an attitude that made people
want to think the worst of him...even Ravd. But apparently he did fight
honorably with Ravd.

I think, in this, Wolfe is attempting justify the knightly code of
challenges of duels to the death for comments that "offend one's honor". He
is showing that words in secret can do as much as a knife in the back.

J

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From: Chris <rasputin_ at hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:18:23 +0000

I find this issue to be particularly interesting not only for the new way it 
has us look at Svon, but for the new way it has us look at Ravd.

Coming out of the first book (and most of the way through the second) Ravd 
is one character who really stands out as having *no flaws at all*. It is 
clear that Able idolizes him; on the basis of their very brief acquaintance, 
Able describes Ravd (in the character list at the beginning of The Knight) 
as "the finest knight I ever saw" - or something quite similar.

>>From this incident we are given a flaw that returns Ravd to more or less 
human status: he allowed his prejudices, his dislike of Svon, to get in the 
way of giving his student the particular treatment/teaching that he needed. 
It is a very small flaw, and apparently not deliberate, but one that did 
have a significant effect. We are meant to sympathize with Ravd, I think, 
because from the narrative up to that point we would have made the same 
unfair judgment of Svon that he did. This takes considerable talent on the 
part of the narrator, and suggests a further dimension in which Able has 
matured. (Although I find myself ultimately unconvinced that he is fully 
mature by the end of the story).

Another point/question: someone mentioned Toug seeing the ghost of Ravd 
looking in on Svon in "The Wizard". The golden knight that Toug describes 
might have been Ravd, but to be honest I thought that the image was that of 
the older Svon, as described in the fight against the Osterlings later on. 
This would also echo the scene of Able looking back on himself, which I 
think is significant because Able, Svon and Toug are already very very close 
to being the same character.

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