Subject: (urth) Osterlings

From: Dan Rabin <wolfe-lists at danrabin.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:54:28 +0000

All the discussion of ingestion of blood reminds me that nobody is 
mentioning the Osterlings, who seem to have an inhumu-like motivation 
for their raids.  Would anybody care to speculate as to how the 
dietary habits of the Osterlings figure into the grand scheme?

   -- Dan Rabin

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From: David Duffy <david.duffy at qimr.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:34:02 +0000

Stephenson's book is full of SFnal references and jokes of varying
quality:

"They were a shade of brown that was darker than black" appears on P 530
of the Morrow hardback.

David Duffy.

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From: David Duffy <david.duffy at qimr.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:50:58 +0000

> dietary habits of the Osterlings figure into the grand scheme?

Probably for the same reason as historical anthropophagy, to get
spiritual/magical power.  Traditionally, you want to eat the bravest of
your enemies, IIRC.  Coming back to the Aelf, they are magical and perform
magic which humans don't, so even though they are lower, consuming their
blood presumably has practical advantages.  Ordinary wizards need the aid
of "lower" elementals to do work, as Able does in the first half of the
story.  In _Castleview_ and here, Faery is conflated with death, so the
Aelf want blood to become alive.

David Duffy.

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:30:55 +0000

Dan R asks if anybody would

> > care to speculate as to how the

And David D responds

> spiritual/magical power.

Uh, no. The Osterlings are described in the list of names in TK as
"People who eat other people to become more human." This is
indeed inhumu-like. This is part of a larger pattern in Wolfe of
devouring someone to become him/her, which I presume to be
a series of variations upon and especially perversions of the
Eucharist.

--Dan'l

--
I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him.
                        -- St Teresa of Avila
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer

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From: David Duffy <david.duffy at qimr.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 04:57:45 +0000

> a series of variations upon and especially perversions of the

This is not that inconsistent an interpretation.  So what's so good about
being human ;)?  Presumably a soul, but how much do you need, and are
there lesser benefits?

David Duffy.

PS A reminder to reread the list of names!

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From: don doggett <kingwukong at yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 04:04:58 +0000

> a series of variations upon and especially

I agree. The Osterlings are analogs of the inhumi and,
farther back, of the Ascians in the NS books who seek
to devour the commonwealth. This is what fascinates me
about WK. I can see the Hierodules and the Neighbors
in the Overcyns. Severian in Able. Ymar in Arthur.
Erebus and Abaia in the Giants. I don't know if it's a
skeleton key, but GW certainly has his obsessions.

Don

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From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 05:02:39 +0000

> "They were a shade of brown that was darker than black" appears on P 530

Not necessarily a Wolfe-ism. I recall from a pre-BOTNS Reader's Digest 
article, a bright but mentally ill boy incessantly asking his caregiver 
if there was a color darker than black, so he could paint his bedroom 
that color, then add some black trim to brighten up the room.

-- 
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com
< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 21:00:32 +0000

> to devour the commonwealth.

Not to mention the alzabo and those who use the elixer
made from its glands. This is an _extremely_ common
theme in Wolfe: rising to become something higher
(Severian, Able); seeking to rise but becoming a
perversion of the higher thing (Typhon, the Gods of
the Whorl); doing so but then being raised anyway
(some of the inhumi, Kypris); falling from your station
to something lower (the beastmen in NS, apparently
the Osterlings); etc. A lot of it has to do with (a) who
you serve (b) why you serve them and (c) what you
eat.

And there's bits of it in other books, notably 5HC...

--Dan'l

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From: Chris <rasputin_ at hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:26:05 +0000

Dan'l said:
>(some of the inhumi, Kypris);

I am unsure whether Typhon falls cleanly into the category of a perversion 
or having been "raised anyway", but I think there is a distinct element of 
both in there. Pas, to all appearances, is far more benevolent than Typhon 
ever was; he tried to play a role and it ended up (at least partially) 
defining him.

And there is a distinction to be made between merely "becoming" by some sort 
of osmosis, and active imitation (a very Christian theme, the way Wolfe 
generally uses it). Severian displays little of the latter (except on 
certain other levels which haven't been mentioned) and a striking amount of 
the former. Silk and Able, on the other hand, are mostly the latter, and 
Silkhorn would perhaps be a mix of both.

The inhumi are particularly interesting in this framework because it seems 
they *cannot* become more human by imitation alone. And this may be entirely 
beside the point, but when I think of the Osterlings becoming "more human" I 
cannot help but think of what happened when the inhumi became "more human" - 
the influence thus exerted is not necessarily going to be a civilizing or 
morally uplifting one.