Subject: (urth) The Piteous Gate

From: Tony Ellis <tonyellis69 at btopenworld.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 23:30:51 +0000

Mournings glory wrote:
>If it's illegal to travel via the roads, how exactly are 
>all these people planning to get to where they're going?

And Rob Davies:
>Why have a gate if no one is allowed to use the road to 
>pass through it?

Chris's post - that the law is only enforced now and then - answers both
these points.

Indeed, it could hardly be enforced any other way. Travel is not
forbidden. The law, we are told, simply demands that you travel across
the countryside. You leave the city then get off the road as fast as you
can. Only in this particular instance there was a patrol of uhlans
waiting.

---

From: mournings glory <mourningsglory at hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 02:08:29 +0000

>can. Only in this particular instance there was a patrol of uhlans

This seems somewhat contradicted by what Severian is told by Master Palaemon 
in Chapter 13 of -Shadow_ (part of which has already been quoted).

******************

"You know of the roads?"

"I know they must not be used. Nothing more."

"The Autarch Maruthas closed them. That was when I was your age. Travel
encouraged sedition, and he wished goods to enter and leave the city by the
river, where they might be easily taxed. *The law has remained in force 
since,*
and there is a redoubt, so I've heard, every fifty leagues. Still the roads
remain. Though they are in poor repair, it is said some use them by night."

"I see," I said. Closed or not, the roads might make for an easier passage 
than
traveling across the countryside as the law demanded.

"I doubt you do. I mean to warn you against them. They are patrolled by 
uhlans
under orders to kill anyone found upon them, and since they have permission 
to
loot the bodies of those they slay, they are not much inclined to ask 
excuses."

***************

Notice how Palaemon says nothing about how you might be able to use the 
roads if you wish to indulge in travel Russian-roulette style. So while 
Chris's notion has a certain appeal to it, there is absolutely no evidence 
that the uhlans only selectively enforce the law when they feel like it. In 
fact, the only time we hear that travel by road is otherwise expressly 
permitted by day is in the war zone, although apparently the Pelerines can 
provide safe conduct.

Also, why we're discussing the ending of _Shadow_ I still do not understand 
the purpose of the Autarch's pandours--the cacogen warriors who stand watch 
inside the honeycombed Wall. Dr. Talos thinks they're looking for a specific 
miscreant (Osama Binlanders? Feh!) But Jonas's tale of the black beans seems 
to hint at the Megatherians. The fact that they're aliens as opposed to 
humans puzzles me too, especially since the only other aliens we meet are 
Father Inire, the Cumaean, and Ossipago, Barbatus and Famulimus--all 
Heirodules. Are the pandours from Yesod as well? And is it Father Inire they 
obey and not the Autarch? Aren't the cacogens generally disliked/feared? And 
what is it they're on the watch for that humans couldn't detect? The 
Ascians--who are far to the north? Or something even more dastardly?

em

---

From: Maru Dubshinki <marudubshinki at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 02:41:14 +0000

On 2/21/06, mournings glory <mourningsglory at hotmail.com> wrote:
....
> Ascians--who are far to the north? Or something even more dastardly?

I think they are on watch for old things, revenants, things yet to be
perhaps... like Jonas.

~Maru

---

From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:08:12 +0000

msg quoted and wrote:

>Mr. Ellis writes:
>
>>The soldiers are driving people off the road, because it's illegal to
>>use the roads of commonwealth.
>>
>>We're given all the facts we need before Severian even sets off on his
>>journey. Master Palaemon tells us: "...there is a redoubt, so I've
>>heard, every fifty leagues... [the roads] are patrolled by uhlans under
>>orders to kill anyone found on them, and since they have permission to
>>excuses." Shadow, XIII
>Here's something I don't understand, however.
>
>If it's illegal to travel via the roads, how exactly are all these people
>planning to get to where they're going? On the day in question Severian
>claims the highway leading to the Piteous Gate is "*crowded* with carts and
>wagons and traffic of all kinds." Surely, most of these people are aware
>that traffic is prohibited on the Commonwealth's roads. So what will they
do
>once they've passed beyond the Gate? Jump into the Gyoll and start
swimming?
>(River traffic does seem to be tolerated.) Melt into the woods and follow
>crude dirt paths--with carts and wagons and beasts of burden? Hide in the
>bushes whenever they sense a uhlan nears?

The question of what happened at the Piteous Gate has, indeed, been the
subject of sometimes heated debate here over the years. So far as I recall,
however, Mr. Ellis is in the minority regarding his rather mundane
explanation. <g> Most seem to believe that something happened to spook the
stream of travelers just as Sev's party was entering the gate. Explanations
for the panic vary; naturally, I prefer my own, which is that Hethor
precipitated the panic, probably by unleashing one of his mirror beasts.

I would have sworn that I made a rather longish post a few years ago about
Hethor, in the course of which I addressed this issue, but I can't seem to
find it in the archives. Maybe I only sent it to a couple of people. In any
event, here is the relevant paragraph from the original, fwiw.

"The dialogue at Casdoe's also goes a long way toward explaining the why, if
not the exact how, of the events at the Piteous Gate. Sev notes, in SWORD,
how Hethor never seemed to come near him when Jonas was close by,
speculating that this was because Jonas, like Hethor, had been a sailor on a
starship, and that Hethor feared that Jonas might recognize him in some way.
Why Hethor should fear that recognition is another issue. Jonas makes his
first appearance in the story as the company of players, Hethor with them,
nears the city gate. As they enter the gate Hethor walks with his head down.
Most of the speculation about why he does that centers on a supposed fear of
being recognized by some authority watching from within the walls of the
gate. I find that prospect doubtful. Dr. Talos's comment about the pandours
possibly watching for a particular miscreant was aimed at Sev, not Hethor,
because Sev had just told him that he had unfinished business with the
Pelerines in the city, whose tent-cathedral had just gone up in smoke. Given
the unreliability of space/time travel, some version of Space Rangers on the
lookout for intergalactic desperadoes is untenable. I believe that Hethor is
trying to avoid the notice of Jonas, who has unexpectedly attached himself
to the group, if only temporarily. Further, I believe that Hethor, possibly
by means of one of his creatures, caused the disturbance within the gate for
two reasons: one, to create a distraction so that Jonas would not notice
him, and, two, to possibly cause Sev's death, and/or Jonas', either by being
trampled in the stampede of vehicles and animals, as some were, or killed,
as many more were when they were caught up in the panic and ran out onto the
road, by the soldiers stationed on the other side of the gate to keep people
off the road. It was not a good plan, but it was the best he could do on the
spur of the moment."

-Roy

---

From: Tony Ellis <tonyellis69 at btopenworld.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:14:31 +0000

Mornings glory wrote:
>while Chris's notion has a certain appeal to it, there is absolutely
>no evidence that the uhlans only selectively enforce the law when
>they feel like it.

Well, there is evidence in the fact that the Piteous Gate is packed with
a multitude of travellers - including experienced wanderers such as Dr
Talos, Baldanders and Jonas. No one expresses any concern at taking this
route out of the city, so clearly most of the time the enforcement is at
least lax enough to allow people to enter and leave unmolested.

I don't think the uhlans are necessarily being selective, however. The
simplest explanation is that there just aren't enough men to patrol 150
miles of open road properly, especially with a war on.

Roy wrote:
>So far as I recall,
>explanation. <g> 

I appreciate the smiley, Roy, but the fact is it's precisely because my
explanation is mundane that I think I'm right. I sometimes get the
impression that people feel some sort of inverse Occam's Razor principle
applies to explaining the mysteries in Wolfe's work - that the more
fantastic the theory, the more likely it is to be true. Crabtree's
Bludgeon springs to mind.

If you accept that the soldiers on the far side of the Gate are there to
keep people off the road, why do you need another explanation for the
disturbance that is taking place? A big crowd and a bunch of people
firing at it is all it takes.

---

From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:21:56 +0000

>least lax enough to allow people to enter and leave unmolested.

And that's part of the reason why what happened that morning at the Gate was
so unusual. The large volume of travelers waiting to exit the city when the
gates opened each morning indicates that they had no reasonable expectation
of being slaughtered by mercenary troopers waiting for them outside the Gate
on the road. They would have to be idiots to routinely take such a chance,
and many of the travelers were tradesmen, as indicated by the carts and
wagons. It stands to reason that there was a similar volume of traffic each
day streaming **into** the city. Those travelers waiting **outside** the
Wall for the Gate to open could, and would, have provided ample warning to
those exiting the city, had there been any unusual military presence to
cause alarm.

No such warning was given. There had to be a common public area immediately
outside the Gate, just as there was inside the Wall, where traffic could
move freely without having to use the forbidden road. The flow of outbound
traffic was moving steadily until something happened to panic the animals
and people. Sev saw five armed riders on the road outside the Gate, with
people moving to either side of them, apparently going unmolested
cross-country. The only people the riders killed were those who had panicked
and who took off down the road. The five riders may have been waiting there
since before the Gate opened that morning; they may even have been routinely
stationed there. It doesn't matter, because, regardless of whatever paths
the travelers normally took, either that day or any other, **they did not
routinely use the road**.

This fictive fact is proven on the first page of CLAW, where the road
outside the Gate is described as "grown up in fresh grass". That road just
wasn't traveled, regardless of how well it was patrolled.

>I sometimes get the

Generally speaking, I agree with you!

-Roy

---

From: thalassocrat at nym.hush.com <thalassocrat at nym.hush.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:19:40 +0000

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:21:56 +1100 "Roy C. Lackey" 
<rclackey at stic.net> wrote:
>so unusual. The large volume of travelers waiting to exit the city 

>when the
>on the road. 

<Snipped good argument>

And if there wasn't a permitted space on the other side of the 
gate, why were the guards letting people through it in the first 
place?

I prefer the looking-for-Hethor theory. The only other time we see 
a highway-guarding Uhlan in action, it's in Claw, when Sev by a 
strategem causes the death of one by Hethor's notules. On 
resurrection, the uhlan says, "I am to be especially vigilant", no 
doubt repeating his patrol orders. Perhaps the uhlans near the gate 
had been given the same order, and perhaps the vigilance in both 
cases was directed against Hethor.

On Hethor: Jonas says the notules are used somewere in the universe 
for ritual combat. This ties back into the monomachy with avens. 
It's not hard to guess that Hethor taught Agia and her brother all 
about them.

---

From: James Wynn <thewynns at earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 03:06:25 +0000

Well, I'm torn. I find the "Uhlan" explanaition attractive since it is
mundane and doesn't require the invention of an entire narrative that is not
refererence elsewhere.

On the otherhand, I understand why a more elaborate theory is sought. If the
explanation is so mundane, why cover it up? Why not mention it? Severian and
Jonas must have gotten some idea of what it was about by the time they
passed the gate. But they didn't know at the end of SOTT. I reached the end
of the fourth book convinced that there would be conversation that explained
it. To no avail. I read UOTNS still hoping for a clue. Nope.

If they're looking for Severian, they didn't seem to find him because he and
Jonas go through all right. If they're looking for Hethor...well, I don't
see any evidence that he is on the run.Why wouldn't the possibility that
they are looking for Jonas be just as reasonable? After all, he's an
expensive piece of equipment. Or Baldanders! He and his butler seem to be on
the run. There are a heck of a lot of miscreants on that road. But they
could have gotten any of them better by waiting for to reach the end of the
gate.

It was one of Hethor's pets? Come on. Nothing in the text says that; not
that I know of. And why release one in the middle of the gate. To release
one in that setting would be as dangerous for Hethor as anybody else. He
could release them almost anywhere else without as much danger. One
explanation, I guess, is that the authorities were on to Hethor and were
about to catch him so he released the pet to cause the confusion and get
away. But typically when you're tracking someone (as Hethor is tracking
Severian), you follow BEHIND him so you can keep your eye on him. Up ahead
is the wrong place for him.

Nothing so far satisfies me. I'm tempted to suggest that there is no Lupine
"explanation". That it is just an awful traffic jam whose only narrative
purpose is to split Sev and Jonas from the rest of their group. But Dorcas
*says* that they are turning around because they are frightened.

J

---

From: Chris <rasputin_ at hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 04:54:38 +0000

Well, logically we can separate the "how" and the "why" of the Piteous Gate 
incident, and perhaps that will help. (Though as a side note I do not 
understand the sort of universal fascination with this incident - which 
doesn't seem to be provoked by historical discussions on the list because it 
is shared by people who haven't read the archives - given that as far as I 
can tell it isn't crucial to the overall interpretation of the story.)

The "mundane" aspect of the uhlans and the laws concerning the use of the 
roads can be considered a fully adequate explanation as to how the incident 
came about. If uhlans were guarding the road to make sure that people coming 
out of the city didn't go any further on it, then even a small disturbance 
could provoke a reaction from the guards that would incite a general panic. 
It wouldn't take Hethor's extraterrestrial beasties, or any particularly 
devious physical means, to create the situation - though of course, such 
means could be employed.

The second aspect is the question of motive. If we press the mundane 
account, it is simply a random occurence - there is no motive. If we don't 
accept this, then we look for a reason why some character in the story would 
want to incite such a panic. To get very specific on this count we'd have to 
come to some determination as to *whose* motive it is; instead let's remain 
general, and treat the question in terms of what the possible results of 
such a panic might be that would benefit anyone.

It might be that the goal was to kill one of the members of Severian's 
party, most probably Severian. If so, the prospective murderer chose a 
method so indirect that it couldn't possibly be very effective; the odds of 
your particular target being killed in the general chaos are rather low.

It could be that the goal was to escape apprehension by the guards waiting 
outside the gate. This could be a motive for a few people, but particularly 
I am thinking of Baldanders; he is of the same general type as the undines 
and Abaia et al., and if he believed he had been spotted by the cacogens in 
the wall he might have feared some kind of trap waiting outside the gate. 
This seems to be a live candidate, but I do not see any real evidence that 
points to it.

The third possibility (that I can think of, at any rate), is that someone 
wanted to split the party. This allows for a truly bewildering array of 
possibilities. One party member might have wanted to shake off another one, 
or on the other hand might have wanted to shake off most/all of the others, 
or might have wanted to get themselves alone with a particular individual. 
Another variation would be one in which a third party, like the current 
Autarch, wanted to separate Severian from one of the others who might cause 
him harm (Hethor, Baldanders). Here again we have discrete possibilities to 
choose from, and possible realistic motives, but not a lot of evidence for 
any particular one.

To me this seems like a dead-end question, there are too many possibilities 
with not enough evidence to make any one of them more plausible than the 
others. I guess the only vague clue I can come up with is that if I remember 
correctly the tone of the conversation, when the groups reunite, implies 
that one of the parties might not have tried as hard as they could have to 
reunite with the other one.

-- Chris

>_______________________________________________
>Urth Mailing List
>To post, write urth at urth.net
>Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net

---

From: pthwndxrclzp <aquastor at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:11:42 +0000

Ah, but stylistically, or perhaps "novelistically" would be a better term,
the incident is placed to have the utmost importance. Not only is it the end
of the first book, it is literally and expressly bookended as such -- what's
the quote, "having taken you from one gate to another I will take a brief
rest" or somesuch (I don't have my books handy). Thus, in an artistic light,
the mysterious tumult at the Piteous Gate is situated to convey what I take
to be a fair amount of importance.

With, of course, no subsequent explanation or even further questioning.
Wolfe loves his myriad mysteries, but this one seems almost calculated to
frustrate. And what *that* could be about, I have no idea.

So no, it doesn't seem crucial in terms of plot, but its placement really
does make ya go "huh." Well, me, at least. Huh.

Aq

On 2/23/06, Chris <rasputin_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [A]s a side note I do not
> can tell it isn't crucial to the overall interpretation of the story.
>
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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:49:54 +0000

I agree with what Aquastor said, and Crush had earlier implied much the
same. Book one ended with a cliff-hanger. Readers expected to find out what
happened in the next installment -- but it didn't happen. I know that Robert
Borski, for one, was particularly put out with the lack of an explanation in
the other books.

Crush also noted, "But Dorcas *says* that they are turning around because
they are frightened." That serves to make a point about the timing of the
events at the Gate. When Sev and his group first caught sight of the Gate
and the travelers, they were still half a league away from it. Traffic was
moving in a steady stream into the tunnel formed by the Gate. By the time
Sev's group reached the Gate, the stream had been flowing for some time
without any problems. Clearly, had the five uhlans been positioned on the
road outside the Gate all morning, they hadn't been causing any difficulties
for the travelers, who took whatever paths they normally took.

If we assume that the uhlans made a *sudden* appearance and started killing
people on the road, causing the panic in question, then we have to account
for a sudden appearance. So far as I can tell, that portion of road nearest
the gate was straight. I don't think it reasonable that five mounted men
could have come down that road so rapidly that any travelers who might have
been on the road couldn't see and hear them coming in time to get off the
road, particularly given the fact the travelers had every reason to be on
the lookout for the troopers. It might be argued that the uhlans were hiding
in the woods, just waiting to ambush the foolhardy. If that were the case,
why didn't they act sooner, before Sev's group ever got to the Gate?

No, something happened inside the long tunnel through the wall that was so
frightening and immediate a threat as to cause the travelers to panic trying
to get away from it. They fled to the closest exit, some, like the man on
the wagon who struck Dorcas, back to the city-side of the tunnel, those
nearer the outside of the gate fled in a panic from whatever danger there
was behind them. Some of them leapt from the frying pan into the fire, so to
speak, and ran onto the road and were killed by the soldiers.

In Severian's dream at the opening of CLAW, the travelers are screaming and
shouting, then he gains the farther side of the gate and sees the green road
with five mounted soldiers on it. "On these riders, the tide of travelers
broke as a wave on a rock, some turning left, some right. Dorcas was torn
from my arms ..." This was *after* the panic inside the tunnel, when people
were still running in a chaotic stream, that he got separated from Dorcas
and the others. The panic was not caused by the uhlans, who were outside the
gate, blocking access to the road. Sev and his group went forward in the
tunnel *towards* the uhlans, not away from them and back to the city.

-Roy

---

From: Duncan Truter <dtruter at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:26:34 +0000

Thanks for all of your responses.

do we even know, though, that the Uhlans were attacking anybody?
Severian says that the crowd was breaking like a wave on the Uhlans,
but all that that really means is that the crowd was moving and the
Uhlans were staying in the same place. I think Severian also mentions
that he takes his sword out and starts attacking everyone in between
him and Dorcas, in order to get to her. Presumably something else
dangerous is happening at the time, or he would have (we hope) just
shouldered through the crowd.

---

From: Chris <rasputin_ at hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:05:46 +0000

Well, this may be irrelevant, but we are given to understand that destriers 
are quite fast. They are genetically engineered mounts that can run at least 
as fast as a speeding motor vehicle.Actually come to think of it, 5 of those 
coming down the road at full speed (if they were in fact doing that) would 
be a good reason for anyone in their way to panic.

Also FWIW the Wright book also mentions Aquastor's point about the thematic 
importance of the gate-to-gate thing. However I don't think this necessarily 
imparts the "mystery" of the gate with any extra importance unless there is 
some other reason to suspect that it is so, and as far as I can tell it 
isn't tied in to the story at ANY other point.

Attempts to analyze the incident further also run into the possibility that 
Severian may be deliberately hiding something.

---

From: James Wynn <thewynns at earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:55:07 +0000

Roy opines
>for a sudden appearance....It might be argued that the uhlans were hiding

While reminding everyone that I'm not satisfied with the uhlan explanation,
I'll say this:
The uhlans had to show up sometime. It could have been a fluke. They showed
up then. If they hadn't Severian wouldn't have recorded the event. The group
would not have gotten split up. Book Two would have proceeded very
differently from the way it did. (Seen the movie "Slackers"?) That's the way
it happened.

Quite apart from the whys and wherefores, this event serves at least two
purposes (as Roy said):
1) It is a cliffhanger. It encourages readers to go and buy the next book.
2) It separates the Severian and Jonas from the group for whatever purpose
Wolfe wanted that to happen.

In the old serial Westerns, the movie would end with, for example, the hero
riding off a cliff. How could he possibly escape? Often he couldn't. The
next episode would be slightly changed from the previous ending allowing the
hero to escape. Why? Because the cliffhanger was its own justification.

By not telling the reader what caused the foul-up, Wolfe ensures he will pay
attention for the first couple chapters as he sets up a new narrative with a
new rhythm. This way Wolfe doesn't have to top the suspense of the ending of
SOTT.

There are lots of reasons why having the uhlans show up at the end of the
book purely by coincidence makes perfect sense. There is even a reason for
the foul-up not having the significance the book implied when SOTT ended.
One last added benefit of the uhlan theory is that there is *sort of* a
potential explanation for the foul up offered in COTC: the dream. As I said,
I like the Uhlan theory for a lot reasons. But I find it unsatisfying.

J

---

From: pthwndxrclzp <aquastor at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:23:48 +0000

There's another possible scenario, though with the barest of textual
support.

We are told, iirc, that some cacogens use the interior of the Wall as a way
station.  We also know that some of the cacogens have access to
extra-temporal information about Urth (and Sev). It doesn't seem that much
of a stretch to think that perhaps one of the cacogens, perhaps a
particularly monstrous one, stuck in the Wall, and knowing that this passage
might be his/her only chance to get an eyeful of the future Epitome of Urth,
popped outside for a peek. The sudden appearance of such an alien would
likely cause just the sort of panic among the walkers as we then see.

I know there's essentially no support for this, and it does move in a
direction that would set William of Occam to shaking his unshaven head in
dismay...but I can't escape the feeling that it is Severian's presence that
sets the riot in motion, somehow.

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:19:20 +0000

>reunite with the other one.

You must be referring to the brief exchange Sev had with Baldanders after
escaping from the antechamber. It was only then that we learned that
Baldanders had been with Sev "in the forest beyond the Piteous Gate."
Baldanders left him there, presumably to search -- successfully -- for
Talos, Jolenta and Dorcas. And Baldanders was burdened with all the troupe's
theatrical properties. It makes you wonder how hard Sev really tried to find
Dorcas. If slow, dim Baldanders could do it, why not he?

If Jonas was with Sev and Baldanders at that point, he fails to mention it.
But he does at one point mention that he and Jonas were together at some
point on the same path to Saltus. Hethor isn't mentioned either, but the
fact that he showed up in the crowd at Morweena's execution indicates that
he didn't have any trouble keeping track of Sev after the fracas at the
gate.

>Severian may be deliberately hiding something.

*Why* did he set his sights on Saltus?

-Roy

---

From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:59:47 +0000

>*Why* did he set his sights on Saltus?

Too late, I remembered that Saltus was on the river and Thrax was near its
headwaters.

-Roy

---

From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:12:13 +0000

> Dorcas. If slow, dim Baldanders could do it, why not he?

Is this sarcasm? As I recall, Baldanders is quite brainy on matters that 
engage him, and it's no surprise that he and Dr. Talos were able to 
locate one another, given their origin of their relationship.

-- 
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com
< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >

---

From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:22:13 +0000

>locate one another, given their origin of their relationship.

In the passage in question (CLAW, XXII), Severian remarks on Baldanders'
slow speech and "dull eyes". He also writes, "I found it impossible to be
angry with this dim, gentle giant." Baldanders had completely forgotten that
Severian had even been with Talos and himself when they left the city via
the Piteous Gate.

-Roy

---

From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:31:31 +0000

Roy C. Lackey wrote:

>>>Talos, Jolenta and Dorcas. And Baldanders was burdened with all the
> 
> troupe's
> 
>>>theatrical properties. It makes you wonder how hard Sev really tried to
> 
> find
> 

In light of what we know from the latter books that he's quite 
accomplished at the intellectual business of chemistry and biology, I've 
thought he was putting on a dullard act, or perhaps was showing the 
effects of Dr. Talos' medicine.  Even before Lake Diuturna, he's 
demonstrates a grip on pretend-vs-real stage acting, and even when it's 
appropriate to pretend to not know.

---

From: Adam Thornton <adam at io.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:25:19 +0000

> appropriate to pretend to not know.

My belief is that he simply doesn't bother to pay attention to things  
that don't matter to him.  What matters to him is extending his own  
life and power.  To some degree he therefore pays attention to Dr.  
Talos, because he created Talos precisely to make sure that he stayed  
in adequate physical shape to pursue his real goals.

Think of Talos as an alarm clock, basically.  Except that Baldanders,  
being very clever, has created an alarm clock that beats him with a  
stick until he gets up, and that manages most of the other annoying  
details of his physical existence for him, leaving him more time to  
think about the things that interest him.

Adam