{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4551", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4551, "subject": "Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "messages": 14, "voices": 7, "first": "2006-03-31T05:59:03+00:00", "last": "2006-04-20T16:08:55+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<20060331055903.ZTRB15695.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>", "from": { "name": "aramini1 at cox.net", "address": "aramini1 at cox.net" }, "date": "2006-03-31T05:59:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just had a revelation from one passage of Soldier of Arete. Tell me if you guys think it is conceivable, or if Io's warning about Hegesistratus to latro means something else besides possible lycanthropy in Hegesistratus.\n\nLet's start with the prophecy at the start of the book:\n\"King, nymph, and priest shall gather round!\nWolf, faun, and nymph, spellbound.\"\n\nElata is the nymph, the faun is the goat man Aglaus, but Oior, the wolfman son of Scoloti, by the time we meet Aglaus or Elata, has been long dead at Latro's merciful hands. \n\nOne possibility is that Latro is the wolf ... but despite Borski's argument, Lucius does not mean wolf, and I remain unconvinced at the evidence in the text. There is another character who could be the wolf: Hegesistratus the mantis with the lame leg. At first, it seems that Latro's attacks on him are completely unwarranted based on the influence of Tisamenus with the order to kill the man with the wooden foot.\n\nIo warns him about how, at the temple of the war god, Hegesistratus was able to leave without being molested by the Thracian troops, and a dog was calling outside. She then makes a rather interesting warning that Latro should keep in mind that dogs were calling if he meets Hegesistratus again (is this a warning about Hegesistratus' intentions? Is he the wolf that will wish Latro woe rather than Oior?) (Latro in the Mist, 521-2)\n\"You told me you heard a dog outside, and Hegesistratus went out, and the Thracians didn't try and stop him. You and me and the black man talked about that, but we really didn't decide anything. ... \"Did you hear the dogs last night? ... I did, and so I thought you should know and write it down, just in case you should meet Hegesistratus again when I'm not with you.\"\n\nRemember that hegesistratus is the lame character: he \"cut\" away his foot to get out of his shackles. This is very similar to a wolf eating its foot. Is Hegesistratus in league with the Thracians, is that why he can leave unmolested, or does the calling of the dogs have something to do with it? Also, this is after the introduction of the shapeshifting boar Xalmoxis. Has Xalmoxis succeeded in taking someone's place ... and if so, could it be Hegesistratus the mantis?\n\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mournings glory", "address": "mourningsglory at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-03-31T07:31:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "<20060331055903.ZTRB15695.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A true son of Rome (but not of Greece) Marcus Aramini writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "One possibility is that Latro is the wolf ... but despite Borski's \nargument, Lucius does not mean wolf" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've yet to receive my order of Long & Short & Everything In Between, but \none of my students handed in a midterm on Keat's \"Lamia\" last week, and in \nit the Lamia's lover is named Lycius--which absolutely means \"wolf\". I know \nbecause we googled it and received over a hundred confirmations, with lots \nof citations about Apollo the Wolf-God. Given as well that the upsilon in \nGreek can be translated as *either* \"y\" or \"u\" it seems to me \"Lycius\" and \n\"Lucius\" are almost certainly equivalent.\n\nKeat's \"Lamia\" also appears to be at least one of the inspirations for \nWolfe's Eurykles. (Or has Crush already pointed this out on his site? Can't \nremember.)\n\n\n\nHow does lycanthropy work if you're maimed in either your human or bestial \nform? Would a limping human also limp as wolf? Would a foot you gnawed off \nas a werewolf also remain absent when you morphed back into human? Who's our \nresident loup-garou authority?\n\nAlso don't know if any of you caught this, but there was a manuscript copy \nof Soldier of Sidon up for bid on eBay recently.\n\nThe winning bid topped out at $108.50, which may well be indicative of how \nmuch people are looking forward to this long-delayed title.\n\nmu sigma gamma " } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060401040426.IDOM17437.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>", "from": { "name": "aramini1 at cox.net", "address": "aramini1 at cox.net" }, "date": "2006-04-01T04:04:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Interesting. Thanks for the information about Lycius. Certainly Drakaina is the lamia that supplants Eurykles.\nThat actually makes more sense if Lucius is the wolf in terms of the prophecy, because Hegesistratus isn't really around much when Elata (as the pythia or whatever it is she has become at the temple) and Aglaus are fooling around with Lucius/Latro at the end of Soldier of Arete. Thus, Wolf, nymph, and faun spellbound. But what is the spell?\n\nWhen I read Soldier of Arete again, it really, really seemed to me as if Lucius is somehow an avatar of Pleistorus, but I can't reconcile his home life memories with the gods. Intersting that his families god was a tutelary spirit between a dog and an ape called Lars. Interesting also that in Wizard Knight, the cat identifies himself as a tutelary lars. Hmm.\n\nI'll find some more quotes to back up the idea that Latro is Plesitorus later. Especially interesting is when Io talks to Latro about how players at a play wear normal masks to hide what they really are. It really reminded me of the ironic scene in Claw of the Conciliator where Severian wonders what the Conciliator come again would do dressed at a costume party, not even knowing he was the conciliator.\n\nMarc" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"mournings glory\" \nDate: 2006/03/31 Fri AM 02:31:20 EST\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope\n\nA true son of Rome (but not of Greece) Marcus Aramini writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "One possibility is that Latro is the wolf ... but despite Borski's \nargument, Lucius does not mean wolf" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I've yet to receive my order of Long & Short & Everything In Between, but \none of my students handed in a midterm on Keat's \"Lamia\" last week, and in \nit the Lamia's lover is named Lycius--which absolutely means \"wolf\". I know \nbecause we googled it and received over a hundred confirmations, with lots \nof citations about Apollo the Wolf-God. Given as well that the upsilon in \nGreek can be translated as *either* \"y\" or \"u\" it seems to me \"Lycius\" and \n\"Lucius\" are almost certainly equivalent.\n\nKeat's \"Lamia\" also appears to be at least one of the inspirations for \nWolfe's Eurykles. (Or has Crush already pointed this out on his site? Can't \nremember.)\n\n\n\nHow does lycanthropy work if you're maimed in either your human or bestial \nform? Would a limping human also limp as wolf? Would a foot you gnawed off \nas a werewolf also remain absent when you morphed back into human? Who's our \nresident loup-garou authority?\n\nAlso don't know if any of you caught this, but there was a manuscript copy \nof Soldier of Sidon up for bid on eBay recently.\n\nThe winning bid topped out at $108.50, which may well be indicative of how \nmuch people are looking forward to this long-delayed title.\n\nmu sigma gamma \n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-04-01T21:29:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "<20060401040426.IDOM17437.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, one thing that I supposed was possible was that Ares might have been \npossessing Latro (the way he was wont to do in the Iliad) at the time when \nLatro received his injury. And perhaps that injury prevented him from \nleaving, or recognizing who he was.\n\nOr maybe Latro just seems like Plesitorus because he has so much arete." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "When I read Soldier of Arete again, it really, really seemed to me as if \nLucius is somehow an avatar of Pleistorus, but I can't reconcile his home \nlife memories with the gods. Intersting that his families god was a \ntutelary spirit between a dog and an ape called Lars. Interesting also \nthat in Wizard Knight, the cat identifies himself as a tutelary lars. Hmm.\n\nI'll find some more quotes to back up the idea that Latro is Plesitorus \nlater. Especially interesting is when Io talks to Latro about how players \nat a play wear normal masks to hide what they really are. It really \nreminded me of the ironic scene in Claw of the Conciliator where Severian \nwonders what the Conciliator come again would do dressed at a costume \nparty, not even knowing he was the conciliator.\n\nMarc" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: \"mournings glory\" \nDate: 2006/03/31 Fri AM 02:31:20 EST\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope\n\nA true son of Rome (but not of Greece) Marcus Aramini writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "One possibility is that Latro is the wolf ... but despite Borski's\nargument, Lucius does not mean wolf" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I've yet to receive my order of Long & Short & Everything In Between, \nbut\none of my students handed in a midterm on Keat's \"Lamia\" last week, and \nin\nit the Lamia's lover is named Lycius--which absolutely means \"wolf\". I \nknow\nbecause we googled it and received over a hundred confirmations, with \nlots\nof citations about Apollo the Wolf-God. Given as well that the upsilon \nin\nGreek can be translated as *either* \"y\" or \"u\" it seems to me \"Lycius\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "and\n\"Lucius\" are almost certainly equivalent." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Keat's \"Lamia\" also appears to be at least one of the inspirations for\nWolfe's Eurykles. (Or has Crush already pointed this out on his site? " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Can't\nremember.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\n\nHow does lycanthropy work if you're maimed in either your human or \nbestial\nform? Would a limping human also limp as wolf? Would a foot you gnawed \noff\nas a werewolf also remain absent when you morphed back into human? Who's \nour\nresident loup-garou authority?\n\nAlso don't know if any of you caught this, but there was a manuscript \ncopy\nof Soldier of Sidon up for bid on eBay recently.\n\nThe winning bid topped out at $108.50, which may well be indicative of \nhow\nmuch people are looking forward to this long-delayed title.\n\nmu sigma gamma \n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060401215050.RZSM17437.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>", "from": { "name": "aramini1 at cox.net", "address": "aramini1 at cox.net" }, "date": "2006-04-01T21:50:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Chris\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, one thing that I supposed was possible was that Ares might have been \npossessing Latro (the way he was wont to do in the Iliad) at the time when \nLatro received his injury. And perhaps that injury prevented him from \nleaving, or recognizing who he was." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I rather like this idea - Ares gets stuck in his head because of the injury. Hmm. \n\nThe only other cogent solution I can think of is that, since Ahura Mazda is the God of good, and Pleistorus is rumored to be ahura mazda, then perhaps latro is a trial run for the theoanthropos: God tests out a human life cycle, and changes in the process from the old, violent God to the compassionate one of Christianity. I wish there were some indication for exactly how long Pleistorus has been missing. If it is only a year or two, then clearly he was simply possessing Latro. If it was closer to twenty, he could have incarnated himself as a human in Rome, which will eventually create the Pax Romana - the entire world must be at peace for Christ to be born, as it purportedly was.\n\nMarc " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-04-01T22:22:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "<20060401215050.RZSM17437.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, when thinking about Ares, also recall what Diokles has to say about \nhim in S. of Arete - met with, I believe, some approval from Latro:\n\n\"Old Ares isn't some kind of monster, see? Think of him as a plain man that \nwants to win the war and get back home to Aphrodite. He's for training, \ndiscipline, and fair play with the men. And he whistles when he loses just \nlike he whistles when he wins.\"\n\nThere is some compassion, or at least justice, in this figure.\n\nNow that you mention it though, the bit about whistling when he loses just \nlike he whistles when he wins stirs up some memory I can't quite recall. \nIsn't there some statement or other that the (Christian) man of faith always \nhopes for the best, but nonetheless is never disappointed if he doesn't \nhappen to get it, treating each with a sort of happy equanimity? I am of \ncourse paraphrasing, because I just can't bring it to mind. The reason this \nstands out a bit to me is that I don't know whether Ares had that sort of \nequanimity associated with him, historically. Most of the gods were pretty \nsore losers." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I rather like this idea - Ares gets stuck in his head because of the \ninjury. Hmm.\n\nThe only other cogent solution I can think of is that, since Ahura Mazda is \nthe God of good, and Pleistorus is rumored to be ahura mazda, then perhaps \nlatro is a trial run for the theoanthropos: God tests out a human life \ncycle, and changes in the process from the old, violent God to the \ncompassionate one of Christianity. I wish there were some indication for \nexactly how long Pleistorus has been missing. If it is only a year or two, \nthen clearly he was simply possessing Latro. If it was closer to twenty, \nhe could have incarnated himself as a human in Rome, which will eventually \ncreate the Pax Romana - the entire world must be at peace for Christ to be \nborn, as it purportedly was.\n\nMarc\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Iorwerth Thomas", "address": "iorweththomas at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-04-04T11:18:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Chris\" \nNow that you mention it though, the bit about whistling when he loses just\nlike he whistles when he wins stirs up some memory I can't quite recall.\nIsn't there some statement or other that the (Christian) man of faith \nalways\nhopes for the best, but nonetheless is never disappointed if he doesn't\nhappen to get it, treating each with a sort of happy equanimity?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It _sounds_ like some elements of Kierkeguaard, but it may not have been \noriginal to him.\n\n-Iorwerth" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew King", "address": "automatthew at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-04-04T17:08:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Apr 4, 2006, at 4:18 AM, Iorwerth Thomas wrote:\nFrom: \"Chris\" \nNow that you mention it though, the bit about whistling when he \nloses just\nlike he whistles when he wins stirs up some memory I can't quite \nrecall.\nIsn't there some statement or other that the (Christian) man of faith\nalways\nhopes for the best, but nonetheless is never disappointed if he \ndoesn't\nhappen to get it, treating each with a sort of happy equanimity?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It _sounds_ like some elements of Kierkeguaard, but it may not have \nbeen\noriginal to him.\n\n-Iorwerth" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The whistling bit reminds me particularly of the Knight of Faith in \nKierkegaard's _Fear and Trembling_. I don't recall any exact \nanalogues, but a specific passage does come to mind, which I'll paste \nbelow. Terminology note: By \"knights of infinity\" in the second \nparagraph, SK is referring to what he more usually calls the Knight \nof Infinite Resignation. An example of the KoIR is Agamemnon, \nsacrificing his daughter for the good of the cause. His counterpart \nKnight of Faith is Abraham, offering up his son for no good reason \nother than a personal request, BUT with the full and absurd \nexpectation that he will receive Isaac back (Paul says by \nresurrection, though that turned out to be unnecessary in this case).\n\n\n\n---\nhttp://home.ddc.net/ygg/etext/fear.htm#Problemata\n\nToward evening he walks home, his gait is as indefatigable as that of \nthe postman. On his way he reflects that his wife has surely a \nspecial little warm dish prepared for him, e.g. a calf's head \nroasted, garnished with vegetables. If he were to meet a man like- \nminded, he could continue as far as East Gate to discourse with him \nabout that dish, with a passion befitting a hotel chef. As it \nhappens, he hasn't four pence to his name, and yet he fully and \nfirmly believes that his wife has that dainty dish for him. If she \nhad it, it would then be an invidious sight for superior people and \nan inspiring one for the plain man, to see him eat; for his appetite \nis greater than Esau's. His wife hasn't it strangely enough, it is \nquite the same to him.\n\n. . . Most people live dejectedly in worldly sorrow and joy; they are \nthe ones who sit along the wall and do not join in the dance. The \nknights of infinity are dancers and possess elevation. They make the \nmovements upward, and fall down again; and this too is no mean \npastime, nor ungraceful to behold. But whenever they fall down they \nare not able at once to assume the posture, they vacillate an \ninstant, and this vacillation shows that after all they are strangers \nin the world. This is more or less strikingly evident in proportion \nto the art they possess, but even the most artistic knights cannot \naltogether conceal this vacillation. One need not look at them when \nthey are up in the air, but only the instant they touch or have \ntouched the ground then one recognizes them. But to be able to fall \ndown in such a way that the same second it looks as if one were \nstanding and walking, to transform the leap of life into a walk, \nabsolutely to express the sublime in the pedestrian that only the \nknight of faith can do and this is the one and only prodigy." } ] }, { "message_id": "<25497044.20060407182209@poczta.fm>", "from": { "name": "Stanislaus", "address": "sbocian at poczta.fm" }, "date": "2006-04-07T16:22:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "<20060401040426.IDOM17437.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello aramini1," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Saturday, April 1, 2006, 6:04:26 AM, you wrote:\nWhen I read Soldier of Arete again, it really, really seemed to me\nas if Lucius is somehow an avatar of Pleistorus, but I can't\nreconcile his home life memories with the gods. Intersting that his\nfamilies god was a tutelary spirit between a dog and an ape called\nLars. Interesting also that in Wizard Knight, the cat identifies himself as a tutelary lars. Hmm." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Lars and Penates were the generic names of the household gods of\nRome. Those are not proper names. In other words, Latro's god was a\nlars, and each family got one.\n\nBy the way, Zalmoxis was originally a sorcerer who persuaded Thracians\nthat he could give them immortality by staging a resurrection. He\nbuilt an underground tomb with a lot of food and lived there for a\nyear." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Best regards,\n Stanislaus mailto:sbocian at poczta.fm\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nPan pozna Pania. Czeka... ;-) >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1922" } ] }, { "message_id": "<648298125.20060407183022@poczta.fm>", "from": { "name": "Stanislaus", "address": "sbocian at poczta.fm" }, "date": "2006-04-07T16:30:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello Chris," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Saturday, April 1, 2006, 11:29:12 PM, you wrote:\nWell, one thing that I supposed was possible was that Ares might have been\npossessing Latro (the way he was wont to do in the Iliad) at the time when\nLatro received his injury. And perhaps that injury prevented him from \nleaving, or recognizing who he was." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Or maybe Latro just seems like Plesitorus because he has so much arete." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Exactly! That was the way Greeks thought of their gods - when someone\nwas in battle-madness, he was Ares, a bold thief was filled by Hermes\netc. Spartans didn't like Ares, by the way, because battle madness\ncauses the soldiers to break line, and this was the greatest crime for\nthem.\n\nIn Illiad it is a bit different - the gods don't possess men, but\ntemporarily replace them, take their shape. But Illiad is a very\nliterary version of Greek religion." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Best regards,\n Stanislaus mailto:sbocian at poczta.fm\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nPoznaj Stefana! Zmien komunikator! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1924" } ] }, { "message_id": "<357646659.20060407191831@poczta.fm>", "from": { "name": "Stanislaus", "address": "sbocian at poczta.fm" }, "date": "2006-04-07T17:18:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello Chris," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Sunday, April 2, 2006, 12:22:55 AM, you wrote:\nWell, when thinking about Ares, also recall what Diokles has to say about\nhim in S. of Arete - met with, I believe, some approval from Latro:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Old Ares isn't some kind of monster, see? Think of him as a plain man that\nwants to win the war and get back home to Aphrodite. He's for training,\ndiscipline, and fair play with the men. And he whistles when he loses just\nlike he whistles when he wins.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There is some compassion, or at least justice, in this figure." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Now that you mention it though, the bit about whistling when he loses just\nlike he whistles when he wins stirs up some memory I can't quite recall.\nIsn't there some statement or other that the (Christian) man of faith always\nhopes for the best, but nonetheless is never disappointed if he doesn't\nhappen to get it, treating each with a sort of happy equanimity? I am of\ncourse paraphrasing, because I just can't bring it to mind. The reason this\nstands out a bit to me is that I don't know whether Ares had that sort of\nequanimity associated with him, historically. Most of the gods were pretty\nsore losers." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Greeks seem to really dislike Ares, so they tend to ridicule him. He\nhates to lose personally in Homer, but he doesn't care whether the\nside he fight for does win. He likes to switch sides to support the losing side, so that the\nbattle is longer.\n\nNames of Ares and his cult.\n\nhttp://theoi.com/Cult/AresTitles.html\n\nIt appears that Spartans worshipped Ares more than other Greeks, if\nnot very much. All sacrificed to him before battle, of course." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Best regards,\n Stanislaus mailto:sbocian at poczta.fm\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\nChcesz wysylac darmowe SMSy bez wchodzenia na strony operatorow?\nhttp://stefan.interia.pl/ - sprawdz i gimnastykuj palce!" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1165131841.20060418231856@poczta.fm>", "from": { "name": "Stanislaus", "address": "sbocian at poczta.fm" }, "date": "2006-04-18T21:18:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "<357646659.20060407191831@poczta.fm>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Friday, April 7, 2006, 7:18:31 PM, you wrote:\nGreeks seem to really dislike Ares, so they tend to ridicule him. He\nhates to lose personally in Homer, but he doesn't care whether the\nside he fight for does win. He likes to switch sides to support the losing side, so that the\nbattle is longer." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Names of Ares and his cult." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://theoi.com/Cult/AresTitles.html" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It appears that Spartans worshipped Ares more than other Greeks, if\nnot very much. All sacrificed to him before battle, of course." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I found an interesting website about Greek practice of binding\nKolossos - \"voodoo dolls\".\n\nhttp://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/GP.html\n\nThey used to bind even gods in that way:\n\n\"Sometimes Kolossoi are used to restrain a dangerous deity, who may\ncause harm or is believed to be favoring your enemies. Thus Ares, as\nGod of slaughter and death on battlefield, may be bound to bring\nsafety in battle, or to decrease the probability of war.\n\n\nProtective deities also may be bound to restrain Them from leaving.\n...\nAres is sometimes bound in this way as a protector, and, in the\nabsence of an inscription, it may be difficult to tell whether He\nis being bound as a hostile or a friendly force. Perhaps He may be\nbound in both aspects at the same time: constrained to stay here\nto protect us and prevented from going to the enemy's side. \"\n \n\"Second, Kolossoi can also be used to restrain ghosts and other\nHikesioi Apaktoi (hostile visitants). Again, they cannot be killed\n(since they are already dead), but they can be bound. For ghosts\nespecially, the binding ceremony may follow funerary customs,\nand so help to ensure that the ghost is properly laid\nand departs for the Land of the Dead.\n\nThird, Kolossoi are used to restrain mortal enemies. Such might either\nbe a Goes (Sorcerer), who has sent an Eid?lon or Phasma (Phantom)\nagainst someone, or it might be a mundane enemy (e.g. in a lawsuit).\"\n\n\"An example of this is the yearly binding of Ares for the protection\nof the city of Syedra; He is unbound once a year during a period of\ngeneral license analogous to the Saturnalia. (This may be symbolized\nin the story in Book 5 of the Iliad, where Ares is bound in a\ncauldron for thirteen lunar months.) \"\n\n\"Often the head is twisted backward, or at least extremely far to the left, to cause confusion. It is also common for the feet to be backward, and sometimes the arms or the entire torso. (So Hephaistos is sometimes shown with His feet backward.) In some cases the Kolossos is made with these parts backward, but usually they are made normally and then twisted around.\n\nThe figure is often pierced with nails or needles (13 is a popular\nnumber), typically made of iron or bronze, though animal fangs and\nother materials may be used. Each nail or needle transfixes some\npart of the body representing a faculty, which it thereby paralyzes,\nbut without destroying it. For example, nails through the eyes, ears\nand mouth paralyze cognitive faculties, while one through the heart\nmight restrain will, and nails through the limbs cause paralysis or loss of strength. \"\n\n\"The spell may take the form of a prayer to some deities to restrain\nthe subject; often the Subject is handed over or committed to the\ndeity (as though being put under arrest) — a wise thing to do,\nsince then responsibility for the binding resides with the Gods.\nAlthough any God or Goddess might be petitioned, it is particularly\nappropriate to appeal to Hermes Katokhos (Restrainer) in the consecration.\nOther deities called on for binding are Hermes Khthonios, Ge, Hecate (Khthonia) and\nPersephone. \"\n\nI would surmise, that Latro is used to bind Ares, as a kind of\nminiature or likeness of him. Ge seems to be often used to bind\nsubjects." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Best regards,\n Stanislaus mailto:sbocian at poczta.fm\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nPoznaj Stefana! Zmien komunikator! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1924" } ] }, { "message_id": "<23840276.1145468405660.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2006-04-19T17:40:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "<1165131841.20060418231856@poczta.fm>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Stanislaus said:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I would surmise, that Latro is used to bind Ares, as a kind of\nminiature or likeness of him. Ge seems to be often used to bind\nsubjects." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Now that is definitely a wicked twist! \n\nBut I still don't understand the focus on Ares. Marcus\nacknowledged that besides Ares, Zeus and Hermes are also\nnot present in the story so far. Although actually I *do*\nbelieve Ares has made an appearance in SoA as Pleistorus.\n\nFurthermore, in \"Soldier of the Mist\" Latro is more often\nassociated with Dionysus than Ares.\nIs it because Latro is a soldier? Well, he is also a thief\n(via his name) and a writer and a lover\nand a wizard (creating Draikana).\n\nJ" } ] }, { "message_id": "<134503828.20060420180855@poczta.fm>", "from": { "name": "Stanislaus", "address": "sbocian at poczta.fm" }, "date": "2006-04-20T16:08:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier: Hegesistratus the Lame Lycanthrope", "in_reply_to": "<23840276.1145468405660.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello James," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Wednesday, April 19, 2006, 7:40:05 PM, you wrote:\nBut I still don't understand the focus on Ares. Marcus\nacknowledged that besides Ares, Zeus and Hermes are also\nnot present in the story so far. Although actually I *do*\nbelieve Ares has made an appearance in SoA as Pleistorus." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Obviously. Greeks thought Ares was born in Thracia, and Pleistorus is\nThracian Ares, so Pleistorus is the original version." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Best regards,\n Stanislaus mailto:sbocian at poczta.fm\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nPoznaj Stefana! Zmien komunikator! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1924" } ] } ] }