{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4560", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4560, "subject": "Merryn and Triskele", "messages": 17, "voices": 8, "first": "2006-04-05T20:54:21+00:00", "last": "2006-04-06T18:56:18+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<000a01c658f3$20deb000$833ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-04-05T20:54:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Andrew wrote:\nBut there is one glaring difference which I find very difficult to\nignore: Merryn. When Sev meets her & the Cumaean in Stone Town,\nthey don't recognize each other. But in Long Sun, Sev fetches\nMerryn to meet with Jahlee; after that, at any rate, they *must*\nknow each other. Something has definitely changed." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think what Andrew is getting at is the rather glaring lack of apparent\nrecognition between Merryn and Severian at the end of CLAW. From Sev's\npersonal perspective, the meeting in the stone town took place less than two\nyears after the time he first found Triskele. (I can elaborate on the time\nframe with citations from the text, if necessary.) Presumably the interval\nwas the same for Merryn. During the time he had Triskele was when Silkhorn &\nCo. made their astral visit to him. Seeing someone walk through a steel wall\nshould have impressed Merryn, and it did. I don't think she would be likely\nto ever forget her experience in the torturers' tower, or the young\napprentice who caused her to be there.\n\nFor the record, Sev had Triskele for only a week. (SHADOW, chapter IV, p-31,\nTimescape hb.)\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060406005433.95C71DA832@mailserver6.hushmail.com>", "from": { "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com", "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T00:54:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<000a01c658f3$20deb000$833ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 06:54:21 +1000 \"Roy C. Lackey\" \n wrote:\nFor the record, Sev had Triskele for only a week. (SHADOW, chapter " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "IV, p-31,\nTimescape hb.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I posted this back in 2003:\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------\n\nQuite a lot more time than a week must separate Silk's visit to \nUrth\nfrom Dorp (RTTW Ch 13) & his final visit from New Viron (Ch 19). \nBut in \nboth passages, Sev has Triskele, whereas in Shadow Sev tells us he \nonly \nhad the dog for a week - Ch IV: \"A week after I had carried him \ndown, I \nfound only Triskele's hobbling footprints in the mud...\"\n\nEither:\n\n(1) Wolfe made a little mistake.\n(2) Silk can & does astral travel through time as well as space.\n(3) Silk's first visit somehow changes things, so that Triskele \nstays\nlonger (the blankets he has in RTTW aren't mentioned in Shadow ...)\n(4) Some other thing.\n\nI pick (1).\n\n------------------------------------\n\nI can't remember the detqails of the longer-than-a-week conclusion, \nbut I recall it was pretty obvious. Now instead of picking (1) I'm \nsuggesting that (3) is worth thinking about." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370604052035l7e5f6daduf4feed5522ada3d6@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T03:35:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<20060406005433.95C71DA832@mailserver6.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 4/5/06, thalassocrat at nym.hush.com wrote:\nQuite a lot more time than a week must separate Silk's visit to\nUrth\nfrom Dorp (RTTW Ch 13) & his final visit from New Viron (Ch 19)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is it clear that more than a week passes _for Sev_? I ask because\nwe know that at least some of the Narrator's astral travels are also\ntravels in time..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I can't remember the detqails of the longer-than-a-week conclusion,\nbut I recall it was pretty obvious. Now instead of picking (1) I'm\nsuggesting that (3) is worth thinking about." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If it is \"clear\" that more than a week passed on Urth between the\nNarrator's visits, then I would go for 3.\n\n--Dan'l" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him.\n -- St Teresa of Avila\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060406035403.2888FDA827@mailserver6.hushmail.com>", "from": { "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com", "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T03:54:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370604052035l7e5f6daduf4feed5522ada3d6@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:35:54 +1000 Dan'l Danehy-Oakes \n wrote:\nOn 4/5/06, thalassocrat at nym.hush.com \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Quite a lot more time than a week must separate Silk's visit to\nUrth\nfrom Dorp (RTTW Ch 13) & his final visit from New Viron (Ch 19)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Is it clear that more than a week passes _for Sev_? I ask because\nwe know that at least some of the Narrator's astral travels are \nalso\ntravels in time..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Do we know that? Not denying it, but I don't recall anything which \nsuggests time travelling. " } ] }, { "message_id": "<672564EA-0127-4E24-9EB4-F3FF0E27FF20@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T04:13:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<20060406035403.2888FDA827@mailserver6.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 5, 2006, at 10:54 PM, \n wrote:\n\n\nOn Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:35:54 +1000 Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 4/5/06, thalassocrat at nym.hush.com \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Quite a lot more time than a week must separate Silk's visit to\nUrth\nfrom Dorp (RTTW Ch 13) & his final visit from New Viron (Ch 19)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Is it clear that more than a week passes _for Sev_? I ask because\nwe know that at least some of the Narrator's astral travels are\nalso\ntravels in time..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Do we know that? Not denying it, but I don't recall anything which\nsuggests time travelling." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm deeply suspicious that the accelerations allowable in the Whorl \n(without the lakes sloshing all over everywhere, etc) would give you \nsufficient relativistic compression to make a thousand-year journey \nonly last 300. Michael Andre-Driussi and I have batted this one \naround a little, and the question comes down to, \"how fast can the \nWhorl accelerate.\"\n\nSo, uh, SilkHorn would seem to be going into the *future*. Not \nmerely outside the light cone, but into the future even if there IS a \nUniversal Time (me, I don't see what's wrong with regarding the \ncomoving frame as Really At Rest and thereby declaring time, relative \nto the comoving frame, to be Real Time, and applying relativistic \nshrinkage to everything else).\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060406042635.YMLN17437.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>", "from": { "name": "aramini1 at cox.net", "address": "aramini1 at cox.net" }, "date": "2006-04-06T04:26:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<672564EA-0127-4E24-9EB4-F3FF0E27FF20@io.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Quite a lot more time than a week must separate Silk's visit to\nUrth\nfrom Dorp (RTTW Ch 13) & his final visit from New Viron (Ch 19)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Is it clear that more than a week passes _for Sev_? I ask because\nwe know that at least some of the Narrator's astral travels are\nalso\ntravels in time..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Do we know that? Not denying it, but I don't recall anything which\nsuggests time travelling." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You must know I'm a huge proponent of the idea that Silk can become unmoored in time, if he focuses on location. The biggest argument against time travel is that that tyrant guy who was a sleeper on the whorl obviously says that a lot of time has passed on Urth and he no longer recognizes his city. \n\nThe best argument for time travel is more easily dismissed: when Inclito's mother tells of the man who dies from the snake tooth in her youth, somehow Silkhorn and Oreb (or a darned good facsimile of them) show up in the story, something that definitely happened in the past. Maybe Silk heard the story, and that night when he fell asleep he went off to live it. Or maybe, as those against time travel would say, she just told him into the story to screw with him. Either way, it's weird.\n\nAramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44349927.9090509@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T04:29:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<672564EA-0127-4E24-9EB4-F3FF0E27FF20@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Adam Thornton wrote:\nSo, uh, SilkHorn would seem to be going into the *future*. Not \nmerely outside the light cone, but into the future even if there IS a \nUniversal Time (me, I don't see what's wrong with regarding the \ncomoving frame as Really At Rest and thereby declaring time, relative \nto the comoving frame, to be Real Time, and applying relativistic \nshrinkage to everything else)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Shrinkage works both ways, but when frames are brought back to relative \nrest, the one that has experienced greater acceleration has experienced \nless duration. However, I don't think GW really believes in relativity, \nor at least it doesn't have physical meaning in the New Sun books, and \nby extension, the Long and Short Suns." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060406052056.B94DDDA825@mailserver6.hushmail.com>", "from": { "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com", "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T05:20:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<44349927.9090509@io.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:13:57 +1000 Adam Thornton \nwrote:\nI'm deeply suspicious that the accelerations allowable in the \nWhorl \n(without the lakes sloshing all over everywhere, etc) would give \nyou \nsufficient relativistic compression to make a thousand-year \njourney \nonly last 300. Michael Andre-Driussi and I have batted this one \naround a little, and the question comes down to, \"how fast can the " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Whorl accelerate.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Seems to me you can get that compression with something less than \n0.01g, if your magic space-engine gives you constant boost up to \n0.95c or beyond. Or no? But anyway I have no idea how noticeable \n0.01g would be; would you get sloshing etc?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<0BD9392C-BA09-4AAD-BBE5-2896802B3A0F@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T05:25:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<20060406052056.B94DDDA825@mailserver6.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 6, 2006, at 12:20 AM, wrote:\nSeems to me you can get that compression with something less than\n0.01g, if your magic space-engine gives you constant boost up to\n0.95c or beyond. Or no? But anyway I have no idea how noticeable\n0.01g would be; would you get sloshing etc?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A 1% grade is certainly enough to ensure you don't, say, put a ball \ndown on a shelf. And there's no indication in the Whorl that you \nhave to build things on slopes to counteract the effects of \nacceleration. I was figuring a thousandth of a G would be more \nreasonable. But on the other hand....we really have no idea how the \nWhorl is powered, do we?\n\nOf course one could say that of course Wolfe doesn't believe in \nrelativity inasmuch as spacetime is a static rather than a dynamic \nconcept, which does not appear to allow for free will. Put another \nway, free will is a refutation of the notion that time is essentially \nspacelike.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4434A6FB.3080608@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T05:28:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<20060406052056.B94DDDA825@mailserver6.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com wrote:\n\nOn Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:13:57 +1000 Adam Thornton \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm deeply suspicious that the accelerations allowable in the \nWhorl \n(without the lakes sloshing all over everywhere, etc) would give \nyou \nsufficient relativistic compression to make a thousand-year \njourney \nonly last 300. Michael Andre-Driussi and I have batted this one \naround a little, and the question comes down to, \"how fast can the " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Whorl accelerate.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Seems to me you can get that compression with something less than \n0.01g, if your magic space-engine gives you constant boost up to \n0.95c or beyond. Or no? But anyway I have no idea how noticeable \n0.01g would be; would you get sloshing etc?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "no slosh, and the tiny acceleration would be swamped in the effects of \nthe Whorl's spin gravity." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T05:35:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<4434A6FB.3080608@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 6, 2006, at 12:28 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\n\nno slosh, and the tiny acceleration would be swamped in the effects of\nthe Whorl's spin gravity." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "How problematic would Coriolis effects be in day-to-day life on the \nWhorl, anyway? Do we know how big it is?\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4434ABBF.1080002@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T05:48:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Adam Thornton wrote:\nOn Apr 6, 2006, at 12:28 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "no slosh, and the tiny acceleration would be swamped in the effects of\nthe Whorl's spin gravity." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "How problematic would Coriolis effects be in day-to-day life on the \nWhorl, anyway? Do we know how big it is?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It should into present a problem with day-to-day living, but given the \nWhorl is of a size that towns are visible overhead, any activity \ninvolving flying objects will be visibly affected. For instance, a ball \nthrown or hit against the rotation of the Whorl will be seen to go \nfarther than one hit traveling with the rotation." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2006-04-06T06:38:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<20060406052056.B94DDDA825@mailserver6.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Seems to me you can get that compression with something less than \n0.01g, " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "remember gy = c \n\nOne g for one year = speed of light \n\none thousandth g would take a while \n\n \n\nhartshorn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<007901c6594f$1a2d4260$1a3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-04-06T07:52:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Andrew quoted and wrote:\nIs it clear that more than a week passes _for Sev_? I ask because\nwe know that at least some of the Narrator's astral travels are\nalso\ntravels in time..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Do we know that? Not denying it, but I don't recall anything which\nsuggests time travelling." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Excuse me, but these speculations on the relativistic effects of\nacceleration on the _Whorl_ have nothing to do with the astral travels Dan'l\nmentioned. Silkhorn did his traveling while on Blue. How long it took the\nship to get from Urth to Blue, and how much time has passed on Urth since it\nvoyaged, is another subject.\n\nI agree with Andrew in that I see no evidence in the text to suggest that\nastral travel also involves time travel.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T14:12:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<007901c6594f$1a2d4260$1a3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 6, 2006, at 2:52 AM, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nAndrew quoted and wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Is it clear that more than a week passes _for Sev_? I ask because\nwe know that at least some of the Narrator's astral travels are\nalso\ntravels in time..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Do we know that? Not denying it, but I don't recall anything which\nsuggests time travelling." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Excuse me, but these speculations on the relativistic effects of\nacceleration on the _Whorl_ have nothing to do with the astral \ntravels Dan'l\nmentioned. Silkhorn did his traveling while on Blue. How long it \ntook the\nship to get from Urth to Blue, and how much time has passed on Urth \nsince it\nvoyaged, is another subject." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But it isn't: knowing whether Severian is in Blue's past light cone, \nits future light cone, or outside its light cone entirely *is* a \nrelevant question. It only becomes irrelevant if we take as a given \nthat relativity doesn't exist in the New/Long/Short Sun universe, and \neven then we're left with the question of, if there is a Universal \nNow and astral travel is instantaneous, then is Severian in the same \nNow that Silkhorn is?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I agree with Andrew in that I see no evidence in the text to \nsuggest that\nastral travel also involves time travel." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, if it is instantaneous--and it must be, or Silkhorn would be \ngone a very long time on his trip to Urth--then either there's no \nrelativity in Wolfe's universe, or it *does*.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370604060921l33e8ba98g8fc139e4c4f043e9@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T16:21:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<007901c6594f$1a2d4260$1a3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 4/6/06, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nAndrew quoted and wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Do we know that? Not denying it, but I don't recall anything which\nsuggests time travelling." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I agree with Andrew in that I see no evidence in the text to suggest that\nastral travel also involves time travel." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is given to us during the storytelling context. The Narrator\ntravels into at least two peoples' stories that have already\nhappened -- and at least one of them is quite surprised at it,\nin a way that shows that she perceives that her own past has\nbeen changed.\n\nI can't be much more specific, because it's been a couple\nof years since I reread SS.\n\n--Dan'l" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him.\n -- St Teresa of Avila\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer" } ] }, { "message_id": "<000201c659ab$ca085060$6601a8c0@cthulhu>", "from": { "name": "Tony Ellis", "address": "tonyellis69 at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2006-04-06T18:56:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Merryn and Triskele", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370604060921l33e8ba98g8fc139e4c4f043e9@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l wrote (of time travel)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This is given to us during the storytelling context. The Narrator\ntravels into at least two peoples' stories that have already\nhappened -- and at least one of them is quite surprised at it,\nin a way that shows that she perceives that her own past has\nbeen changed." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I can't be much more specific, because it's been a couple\nof years since I reread SS." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Chapter 9 of In Green's Jungles, if people want a reference. Fava is\ntelling the story of what is clearly her own childhood on Green, and for\nsome reason brings Silkhorn into it. Silkhorn tells us that he starts to\nimagine the scene vividly, and Fava then seems very surprised to find\nherself describing how she was rescued by Silkhorn, as if that wasn't\nwhat had happened. Silkhorn actually starts narrating the story directly\nto us, as something happening to him.\n\nBut exactly what is going on here? Fava describes this person as\n'stocky', which sounds like Horn rather than Silkhorn, and says that he\nwanted to use her to frustrate his son's plans, which sounds like\nsomething Horn would have wanted to do when he was on Green.\n\nAnd why did Fava introduce Silkhorn (or Horn) to her story in first\nplace? Because that actually happened? Or was Fava's childhood too long\nago for Horn to have been there? I wonder if Fava genuinely did see Horn\nwhile he was on Green, and in revisiting that time Silkhorn 'overlaid'\nthat self with his new self. A similar thing happens in Free Live Free.\n\nBut this topic needs a thread, possibly a website, all of its own.\nCertainly Silkhorn demonstrates some sort of power to travel back in\ntime. " } ] } ] }