{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4578", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4578, "subject": "Eyes of Thecla", "messages": 37, "voices": 19, "first": "2006-05-02T01:33:58+00:00", "last": "2006-05-10T01:41:38+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-02T01:33:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wolfe seems to use physical descriptions of his characters in somewhat \nmysterious ways. I have a few issues I'd like to discuss regarding this. \nFirst, in BotNS, Thecla is first described as having \"great violet eyes, \nlids shaded with blue\". Her large, violet eyes are noted numerous times \nlater in the text (though they are once called \"deep blue\" when comparing \nthem to Master Ash's eyes; perhaps this is more evidence of Severian's \nunreliablity?)\n\nIn Sword, in a mushroom induced dream, it is implied that Thecla's (and \nother exultant women's)eyes have been made to grow bigger by \"the \napplication of minute amounts of certain poisons in childhood\". Now there \nis another quasi-character who is described as having eyes with great pupils \nas dark as wells, irises purple as summer flowers. It is Hethor's \nparacoita.\n\nI don't know of any other characters who are described as having very large \nviolet or purple eyes, so it is difficult to call the similarity a \ncoincidence, especially since both descriptions first appear in Shadow. But \nwhat connection can there be between these two? I have some vague thoughts \ninvolving the kaibit process but I'm interested in any ideas others might \nhave." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4E033CD6-C7E5-4D94-8774-49BDD96F1F76@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2006-05-02T01:41:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On May 1, 2006, at 8:33 PM, b sharp wrote:\n But\nwhat connection can there be between these two?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have no idea.\n\nI just want to sing,\n\n\"The Eyes of Thecla are Upon You.\"\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4456C4E1.3090300@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2006-05-02T02:33:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "b sharp wrote:\nIn Sword, in a mushroom induced dream, it is implied that Thecla's (and \nother exultant women's)eyes have been made to grow bigger by \"the \napplication of minute amounts of certain poisons in childhood\". Now there \nis another quasi-character who is described as having eyes with great pupils \nas dark as wells, irises purple as summer flowers. It is Hethor's \nparacoita.\n\nI don't know of any other characters who are described as having very large \nviolet or purple eyes, so it is difficult to call the similarity a \ncoincidence, especially since both descriptions first appear in Shadow. But \nwhat connection can there be between these two? I have some vague thoughts \ninvolving the kaibit process but I'm interested in any ideas others might \nhave." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As Mantiss has it, each exultant child has a clone (the khaibit, \negpytian word for shadow) from which certain items are harvested, \nnotably growth factors. Given the Exultants' natural height, this \nresults in a towering Exultant and a Khaibit of roughly normal height. \nGivne this precedent, doubltess any number of other cosmetic adjustments \ncould be made to the Exultants, and the khaibits possibly serve as \nsources of spare vital organs as well." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mournings glory", "address": "mourningsglory at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-02T02:56:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: \"b sharp\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Wolfe seems to use physical descriptions of his characters in somewhat\nmysterious ways... in BotNS, Thecla is first described as having \"great \nviolet eyes,\nlids shaded with blue\". Her large, violet eyes are noted numerous times\nlater in the text." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Much of the early violet imagery in Shadow is associated with flowers in the \nnecropolis. I.e., \"The necropolis has never seemed a city of death to me; I \nknow its purple roses (which other people think so hideous) shelter \nhundreds of small animals and birds.\" \"Spring came, and with it the \npurple-striped and white-dotted lilies of the necropolis.\" \"The lilies faded \nas lilies do, and the dark death roses came into bloom. I cut them and \ncarried them to Thecla, nigrescent purple flecked with scarlet.\" Hence the \nchief use of violet/purple may be to foreshadow Thecla's imminent death." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In Sword, in a mushroom induced dream, it is implied that Thecla's (and\nother exultant women's)eyes have been made to grow bigger by \"the\napplication of minute amounts of certain poisons in childhood\"." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Belladonna will do this and was often used by Venetian courtesans to enhance \ntheir desirability. Interestingly the first six letters in scopolagna -- \nwhich is how at one time Hethor refers to his lost love -- can also refer to \na class of compounds extracted from belladona." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Now there\nis another quasi-character who is described as having eyes with great \npupils\nas dark as wells, irises purple as summer flowers. It is Hethor's\nparacoita." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Isn't it implicit in URTH that Gunnie is actually Hethor's imaginary \ngirlfriend? Her eyes are described \"as large, as dark and as soft as any \ncow's,\" which doesn't necessarily rule out a darker shade of violet. Ditto \nfor her real name -- Burgundafora -- I've always associated burgundy with a \nsort of wine-dark red shading into purple." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't know of any other characters who are described as having very large\nviolet or purple eyes, so it is difficult to call the similarity a\ncoincidence, especially since both descriptions first appear in Shadow. But\nwhat connection can there be between these two? I have some vague thoughts\ninvolving the kaibit process but I'm interested in any ideas others might\nhave." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Then again maybe you're onto something. So let's have it, mr \"c\" note.\n\nmourning's glory (whose namesake, of course, also comes in violet and \npurple-blue)" } ] }, { "message_id": "<001601c66dab$eed353e0$923ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-05-02T05:47:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mourning's glory wrote:\nIsn't it implicit in URTH that Gunnie is actually Hethor's imaginary\ngirlfriend? Her eyes are described \"as large, as dark and as soft as any\ncow's,\" which doesn't necessarily rule out a darker shade of violet. Ditto\nfor her real name -- Burgundafora -- I've always associated burgundy with a\nsort of wine-dark red shading into purple." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's very interesting. I've never heard that before, and it never occurred\nto me. Or are you equating Hethor with Purn? Care to elaborate?\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2006-05-02T06:46:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "<001601c66dab$eed353e0$923ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 2 May 2006, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\n\nto me. Or are you equating Hethor with Purn? Care to elaborate?\n\n-Roy" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For one terrible moment, I thought you said Pern.\n\nDavid Duffy." } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060502072236.98118.qmail@web32413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "don doggett", "address": "kingwukong at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-05-02T07:22:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- b sharp wrote:\nI don't know of any other characters who are\ndescribed as having very large \nviolet or purple eyes, so it is difficult to call\nthe similarity a \ncoincidence, especially since both descriptions\nfirst appear in Shadow. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't have my books with me, but Noctua, who is the\nnaviscaput's daughter, has violet eyes, as does\nValeria. There are more that I can't recall, but I\nthink you are right that they're related in some way.\n\nDon" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060502072430.86292.qmail@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "don doggett", "address": "kingwukong at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-05-02T07:24:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "<20060502072236.98118.qmail@web32413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah, yes, Katharine, Severian's mother, also has violet\neyes.\n\nDon" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- don doggett wrote:\n\n\n--- b sharp wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I don't know of any other characters who are\ndescribed as having very large \nviolet or purple eyes, so it is difficult to call\nthe similarity a \ncoincidence, especially since both descriptions\nfirst appear in Shadow. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't have my books with me, but Noctua, who is\nthe\nnaviscaput's daughter, has violet eyes, as does\nValeria. There are more that I can't recall, but I\nthink you are right that they're related in some\nway.\n\nDon\n\n__________________________________________________\nDo You Yahoo!?\nTired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam\nprotection around \nhttp://mail.yahoo.com \n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mournings glory", "address": "mourningsglory at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-02T17:52:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "<20060502072236.98118.qmail@web32413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I don't know of any other characters who are\ndescribed as having very large\nviolet or purple eyes" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't have my books with me, but Noctua, who is the\nnaviscaput's daughter, has violet eyes, as does\nValeria. There are more that I can't recall, but I\nthink you are right that they're related in some way." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Ah, yes, Katharine, Severian's mother, also has violet\neyes." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mr. Doggett:\n\nEither you're misremembering, have a variant text, or I'm looking in all the \nwrong places.\n\nNoctua is \"luminous of eye\" \"and the light that is in them is not of Urth\" \n-- \"she, whose eyes held starlight.\"\n\nKatharine, meanwhile, is \"dark of complexion, dark of eye\" -- like her son, \nwho has brown eyes. (Genetically, there is no way a violet-eyed mother and a \nblue-eyed Ouen could have a child with brown eyes.)\n\nAs for Valeria, \"She had dark, curling hair, like Thecla's, but her eyes \nwere dark too. Thecla's were violet.\" Here Severian deliberately contrasts \nthe two women's eye color. (Perhaps, in Valeria's paraphrase of \"I am all \nthe daughters of my father's house, And all the brothers too,\" you are \nconfusing her with Twelfth Night's Viola -- whose name indeed suggests \nviolet.)\n\nTwo others, however, come a little closer to violet, if not all the way \nthere.\n\nApheta's eyes are \"large and luminous and of the deep, deep blue of her sea, \nunfaded by age.\" While the little girl Sev encounters in the antechamber of \nthe House Absolute has \"sparkling midnight eyes.\"\n\nSo it seems b sharp's original assertion is still correct.\n\nem" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060502183017.21051.qmail@web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "don doggett", "address": "kingwukong at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-05-02T18:30:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, as I said, I don't have my books, so it's quite\npossible I'm misremembering. Thanks for the\ncorrection.\n\nDon" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "--- mournings glory \nwrote:\nI don't know of any other characters who are\ndescribed as having very large\nviolet or purple eyes" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I don't have my books with me, but Noctua, who is\nthe\nnaviscaput's daughter, has violet eyes, as does\nValeria. There are more that I can't recall, but I\nthink you are right that they're related in some\nway." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Ah, yes, Katharine, Severian's mother, also has\nviolet\neyes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mr. Doggett:\n\nEither you're misremembering, have a variant text,\nor I'm looking in all the \nwrong places.\n\nNoctua is \"luminous of eye\" \"and the light that is\nin them is not of Urth\" \n-- \"she, whose eyes held starlight.\"\n\nKatharine, meanwhile, is \"dark of complexion, dark\nof eye\" -- like her son, \nwho has brown eyes. (Genetically, there is no way a\nviolet-eyed mother and a \nblue-eyed Ouen could have a child with brown eyes.)\n\nAs for Valeria, \"She had dark, curling hair, like\nThecla's, but her eyes \nwere dark too. Thecla's were violet.\" Here Severian\ndeliberately contrasts \nthe two women's eye color. (Perhaps, in Valeria's\nparaphrase of \"I am all \nthe daughters of my father's house, And all the\nbrothers too,\" you are \nconfusing her with Twelfth Night's Viola -- whose\nname indeed suggests \nviolet.)\n\nTwo others, however, come a little closer to violet,\nif not all the way \nthere.\n\nApheta's eyes are \"large and luminous and of the\ndeep, deep blue of her sea, \nunfaded by age.\" While the little girl Sev\nencounters in the antechamber of \nthe House Absolute has \"sparkling midnight eyes.\"\n\nSo it seems b sharp's original assertion is still\ncorrect.\n\nem\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2006-05-02T19:43:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "b sharp writes: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't know of any other characters who are described as having very large \nviolet or purple eyes, so it is difficult to call the similarity a \ncoincidence, especially since both descriptions first appear in Shadow. But \nwhat connection can there be between these two? I have some vague thoughts \ninvolving the kaibit process but I'm interested in any ideas others might \nhave." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\n\n\"Violet eyes\" is just a poetic way of saying dark blue eyes. \n\nBlue eyes are not found among animals, only among humans. \n\nBut \"blue-eyed\" also has poetic connotations of outdoorsy, healthy, \nsunburned, blonde, natural, happy, which Wolfe does not want to bring up in \nconnection with the paramours of the Autarch, who should be surpassingly \nbeautiful but sick, like the dying Urth. \n\n \n\n\nThis isn't complex, but in this case I **think** it's the whole story. \n\n \n\nWolfe has a wonderful way of implying much in a few words, and if you pick \nthose words apart you won't always find a conscious construction under them. " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4457BB18.8050103@charter.net>", "from": { "name": "JWillard", "address": "aldenweer at charter.net" }, "date": "2006-05-02T20:03:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Andy Robertson wrote:\nb sharp writes: \n\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I don't know of any other characters who are described as having very large \nviolet or purple eyes, so it is difficult to call the similarity a \ncoincidence, especially since both descriptions first appear in Shadow. But \nwhat connection can there be between these two? I have some vague thoughts \ninvolving the kaibit process but I'm interested in any ideas others might \nhave.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Violet eyes\" is just a poetic way of saying dark blue eyes. \n\nBlue eyes are not found among animals, only among humans. \n\nBut \"blue-eyed\" also has poetic connotations of outdoorsy, healthy, \nsunburned, blonde, natural, happy, which Wolfe does not want to bring up in \nconnection with the paramours of the Autarch, who should be surpassingly \nbeautiful but sick, like the dying Urth. \n\n\n\n\nThis isn't complex, but in this case I **think** it's the whole story. \n\n\n\nWolfe has a wonderful way of implying much in a few words, and if you pick \nthose words apart you won't always find a conscious construction under them. \n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adrian Robert", "address": "arobert at cogsci.ucsd.edu" }, "date": "2006-05-02T20:06:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On May 2, 2006, at 3:43 PM, Andy Robertson wrote:\nb sharp writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I don't know of any other characters who are described as having \nvery large\nviolet or purple eyes, so it is difficult to call the similarity a\ncoincidence, especially since both descriptions first appear in \nShadow. But\nwhat connection can there be between these two? I have some vague \nthoughts\ninvolving the kaibit process but I'm interested in any ideas \nothers might\nhave." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Violet eyes\" is just a poetic way of saying dark blue eyes.\n\nBlue eyes are not found among animals, only among humans." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Excepting Siamese cats, at least.." } ] }, { "message_id": "<001601c66e25$62149840$1c3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-05-02T20:16:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mourning's glory wrote:\nKatharine, meanwhile, is \"dark of complexion, dark of eye\" -- like her son,\nwho has brown eyes. (Genetically, there is no way a violet-eyed mother and\na\nblue-eyed Ouen could have a child with brown eyes.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm thinking of a different dog fight in the Sun Cycle, but I'm so glad\nsomeone who isn't me pointed this out. \n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mournings glory", "address": "mourningsglory at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-02T20:33:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Blue eyes are not found among animals, only among humans." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Excepting Siamese cats, at least.." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...and Persian cats, plus Samoyed and Siberian Husky dogs, blue-eyed lemurs, \nblue-eyed shags (an antarctic bird), and Siegfried and Roy's famous white \ntigers, one of whom, Manticore, tried to eat Herr Horn for a snack.\n\nem-of-the-cornflower-blues" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mournings glory", "address": "mourningsglory at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-03T03:34:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "<001601c66dab$eed353e0$923ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Isn't it implicit in URTH that Gunnie is actually Hethor's imaginary\ngirlfriend? Her eyes are described \"as large, as dark and as soft as any\ncow's,\" which doesn't necessarily rule out a darker shade of violet. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Ditto\nfor her real name -- Burgundafora -- I've always associated burgundy with \na\nsort of wine-dark red shading into purple." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That's very interesting. I've never heard that before, and it never \noccurred\nto me. Or are you equating Hethor with Purn? Care to elaborate?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I believe it was Mr. Andre-Driussi who argued earlier that Hethor and Purn \nmight be younger and older versions of the same individual. (I've given up \never trying to find anything in the archives.)\n\n1) Purn wonders if Lune is \"big and white\" -- which may mean he crewed \naboard the Quasar before the moon was forested, possibly making him a \ncontemporary of Jonas.\n\n2) Purn is present when Severian compares the beast-summoning sails of the \nQuasar to mirrors and notes the parallel with Hethor, perhaps planting the \nsuggestion in Purn.\n\n3) Purn utters at least one Wellerism (\"That's what makes the ship go, as \nthe skipper said when they asked about the wench\") --something Hethor does \nwith even more frequency.\n\n4) When asked why he's attempted to kill him, Purn, in talking about his \nwould-be relationship with Gunnie, tells Severian that \"I'd been hoping \nshe'd kiss me.\" If Burgundafora's eyes are indeed violet or dark blue, this \nmight link her to Hethor's paracoita.\n\n5) The name 'Purn' itself is a bit of a mystery -- it's neither saintly nor \nmythic, but I suspect it may be either anglicized Korean or Chinese (I've \nqueried a number of people and forums, but have yet to receive confirmation \nor rejection) --which may link him to the pan-Asian spacefarers of the First \nEmpire.\n\n6) A much younger, saner version of Hethor might be more difficult for \nSeverian to recognize, who's not particularly adept at these sorts of things \nanyway.\n\nEm Ess Gee" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maru dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-03T05:25:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "<4457BB18.8050103@charter.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/2/06, JWillard wrote:\nAndy Robertson wrote:\nPg. 5 of Peace has this line: \"Violet-eyed and black-haired, my aunt\nOlivia...\" This is one of those lines I've been hung up on for a while,\ncursing my lack of eternity to make notes on such things as hair and eye\ncolor in the Lupiverse.\n\nWhich brings me to a more serious question I've been entertaining for a\nwhile as well. Does someone out there know how to set up a wiki? Is\nthere any reason we couldn't have a wiki-Wolfe, to start referencing\nanswers to questions like this? (If there's a Battlestar wiki, why not\na wiki-Wolfe?) Is this a terrible idea? Is it a copyright problem?\nI'm only semi-literate when it comes to computer things, so please,\nsomeone, make the case for or against." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "*cue the lurking Wikipedia administrator*\n\nCertainly you could set up a wiki. Since all of Wolfe's work is\nunfreely licensed (so far as I know), editor would need to be a little\ncareful to keep quotes within fair-use bounds, but that hasn't been a\nproblem for this ML or for wikis on fictional universes- Wookieepedia\n(http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) and Memory Alpha\n(http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/Main_Page) have been going\nswimingly.\n\nI understand that setting up a wiki on Wikia (formerly Wikicities;\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikia) is fairly easy and free; if you\ndon't like the GFDL, other licenses can be chosen. My personal\npreference would be simply going with public domain (hasn't hurt\nInfoAnarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfoAnarchy)), but I imagine\nother can differ.\n\nIn short, it is perfectly possible, and probably a good idea. Just\nmining the archives alone could create a respectable size wiki, and I\nknow I would greatly prefer a wiki for discussions (it would make\nthings much easier to have arguments and trivia consolidated, and\nlinking to them would improve arguments. How often have we seen things\ndiscussed to death rise up again just because no one really remembers\nthem?)\n\n~maru" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maru dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-03T05:40:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Some more links:\nhttp://www.wikia.com/wiki/Start_a_new_Wikia\nhttp://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_creation_policy\n\nLooking at the reject wikia is instructive:\nhttp://www.wikia.com/wiki/Rejected_wiki_requests\n\nAnd of course, casually scanning through the list of wikia, I see\nwikia for the Well of Souls, Star Wars, Star Trek, Age of Empires, Xenosaga,\nWheel of Time etc.:\nhttp://www.wikia.com/wiki/Template:List_of_Wikia\n\n~maru\nsuggested reading" } ] }, { "message_id": "<000a01c66e8e$b8e27ca0$d33ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-05-03T08:51:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mourning's glory wrote:\n1) Purn wonders if Lune is \"big and white\" -- which may mean he crewed\naboard the Quasar before the moon was forested, possibly making him a\ncontemporary of Jonas." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "3) Purn utters at least one Wellerism (\"That's what makes the ship go, as\nthe skipper said when they asked about the wench\") --something Hethor does\nwith even more frequency." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Did you mean Jonas? I don't recall Hethor ever using a Wellerism. Miles, of\ncourse, did. So did Gunnie. (18) As did the old moonraker captain near the\nend of CITADEL, so that type of speech was still used in Severian's day, and\nI see no reason to believe that Maxellindis' uncle had ever served aboard\nthe Ship or been a contemporary of Jonas.\n\nPurn (and Idas) had boarded the same ship on Urth that took Severian to the\nShip. (84, 107) Purn was lying about not knowing about green Lune.\n\nOf course, with time travel all sorts of improbable things can happen, but\nthe last time Severian saw Hethor he was a little gray-haired man of more\nthan middle years. Purn was one of those big, blond, sunny-disposition guys\nthat Severian associated with men from the south of the Commonwealth, much\nlike Hallvard.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<9c6b022b0605030743k4c61019o210e76621e5adaf6@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Ranjit Bhatnagar", "address": "ranjit at moonmilk.com" }, "date": "2006-05-03T14:43:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Maru wrote:\nI understand that setting up a wiki on Wikia (formerly Wikicities;\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikia) is fairly easy and free; if you\ndon't like the GFDL, other licenses can be chosen. My personal\npreference would be simply going with public domain (hasn't hurt\nInfoAnarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfoAnarchy)), but I imagine\nother can differ." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can also set one up quite easily on urth.net - my hosting company\ngives me a big red button that says \"WIKI\" on it, which I need simply\npush. I'd be glad to do that if people are interested. However, I\nwon't have time to administer it at all - setting up the initial\nstructure, editing, monitoring for spam and vandalism - so I'd have to\nask that others commit to take care of the thing! What do you think?\n\n- ranit" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maru dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-03T15:03:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "<9c6b022b0605030743k4c61019o210e76621e5adaf6@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/3/06, Ranjit Bhatnagar wrote:\nI can also set one up quite easily on urth.net - my hosting company\ngives me a big red button that says \"WIKI\" on it, which I need simply\npush. I'd be glad to do that if people are interested. However, I\nwon't have time to administer it at all - setting up the initial\nstructure, editing, monitoring for spam and vandalism - so I'd have to\nask that others commit to take care of the thing! What do you think?\n\n- ranit" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'd be glad to handle that, but I couldn't right now- after May I'll\nhave enough spare time I could run that. Of course, if no one else is\ninterested, there's no point. Good wikis are always community-based\nefforts.\n\nIncidentally, what engine do they provide? Mediawiki, oddmuse, or some\nengine I've never heard of?\n\n~maru" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4458F08B.9090906@charter.net>", "from": { "name": "JWillard", "address": "aldenweer at charter.net" }, "date": "2006-05-03T18:03:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "maru dubshinki wrote:\nOn 5/3/06, Ranjit Bhatnagar wrote:\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I can also set one up quite easily on urth.net - my hosting company\ngives me a big red button that says \"WIKI\" on it, which I need simply\npush. I'd be glad to do that if people are interested. However, I\nwon't have time to administer it at all - setting up the initial\nstructure, editing, monitoring for spam and vandalism - so I'd have to\nask that others commit to take care of the thing! What do you think?\n\n- ranit\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'd be glad to handle that, but I couldn't right now- after May I'll\nhave enough spare time I could run that. Of course, if no one else is\ninterested, there's no point. Good wikis are always community-based\nefforts.\n\nIncidentally, what engine do they provide? Mediawiki, oddmuse, or some\nengine I've never heard of?\n\n~maru\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maru dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-03T20:33:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "<4458F08B.9090906@charter.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In 5/3/06, JWillard wrote:\nWell, I very much want to see this happen. I imagine others will take\nan interest if we get it up and running. We could have sections for\neverything - characters, critters, genetic traits, theories, whatever.\nThanks for the links!\n\nJason" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "OK, so that makes me, Jason Willard, Kieran Mullen, and Ranjit\nBhatnagar who've expressed interest. Anyone else?\n\n~maru" } ] }, { "message_id": "<445913EF.1030203@goosemoon.org>", "from": { "name": "Allan Anderson", "address": "rubel at goosemoon.org" }, "date": "2006-05-03T20:34:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I will happily futz with entries." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "maru dubshinki wrote:\nIn 5/3/06, JWillard wrote:\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, I very much want to see this happen. I imagine others will take\nan interest if we get it up and running. We could have sections for\neverything - characters, critters, genetic traits, theories, whatever.\nThanks for the links!\n\nJason\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "OK, so that makes me, Jason Willard, Kieran Mullen, and Ranjit\nBhatnagar who've expressed interest. Anyone else?\n\n~maru\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370605031410g1f79737erfdf2a0469ae8ab36@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-03T21:10:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "<52806A73-6208-443F-AC31-D2ED405BD07A@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Definite interest, though I question my ability to commit time to it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/3/06, Matthew King wrote:\n\nOn May 3, 2006, at 1:33 PM, maru dubshinki wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "OK, so that makes me, Jason Willard, Kieran Mullen, and Ranjit\nBhatnagar who've expressed interest. Anyone else?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I will gladly use a wiki to take notes as I re-read everything.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<52806A73-6208-443F-AC31-D2ED405BD07A@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew King", "address": "automatthew at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-03T22:57:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On May 3, 2006, at 1:33 PM, maru dubshinki wrote:\n\nOK, so that makes me, Jason Willard, Kieran Mullen, and Ranjit\nBhatnagar who've expressed interest. Anyone else?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I will gladly use a wiki to take notes as I re-read everything." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Rex Racer", "address": "rex.racerx at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-04T00:01:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370605031410g1f79737erfdf2a0469ae8ab36@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Though new to contributing to the list, I would be happy to help where I\ncan." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/3/06, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\n\nDefinite interest, though I question my ability to commit time to it.\n\nOn 5/3/06, Matthew King wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On May 3, 2006, at 1:33 PM, maru dubshinki wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "OK, so that makes me, Jason Willard, Kieran Mullen, and Ranjit\nBhatnagar who've expressed interest. Anyone else?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I will gladly use a wiki to take notes as I re-read everything.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<6d9d379a0605031755y1503ffe2t30ed12621aeca310@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Jordan Dennis", "address": "jordanden at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-04T00:55:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think it would be a most helpful tool. I've written several college papers\nWolfe's workk, and a wiki would have been a most helpful resource for me at\nthe time.\n\nOf course, I would spend way too much time reading it and not enough time\nwriting the papers, but that wouldn't hurt my feelings too much." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jordan D. Dennis\n\n\"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or\nprohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech,\nor of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to\npetition the Government for a redress of grievances.\"\n\nUnder the First Amendment, there is no such thing as a false idea. However\npernicious as an opinion may seem, we depend for its correction not on the\nconscience of judges and juries, but on the competition of other ideas. (US\n1974:339)" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Iorwerth Thomas", "address": "iorweththomas at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-04T09:57:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370605031410g1f79737erfdf2a0469ae8ab36@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ditto." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\" \nReply-To: The Urth Mailing List \nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) wikiWolfe\nDate: Wed, 3 May 2006 14:10:14 -0700\n\nDefinite interest, though I question my ability to commit time to it.\n\nOn 5/3/06, Matthew King wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On May 3, 2006, at 1:33 PM, maru dubshinki wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "OK, so that makes me, Jason Willard, Kieran Mullen, and Ranjit\nBhatnagar who've expressed interest. Anyone else?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I will gladly use a wiki to take notes as I re-read everything.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-05T13:57:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Okay, my last thoughts on this. So it looks like the only two characters \nwith explicitly described violet/purple eyes are Thecla and the paracoita. \nHethor blames his \"shipmates\" and \"not shipmates\" (or was it \"crewmates\"?) \nfor stealing her. Perhaps \"not shipmate\" means passenger? There is one \ncharacter who was both a passenger on the Quasar ship and is associated with \nThecla, which is the old Autarch, Appian.\n\nIn Solar Labyrinth(and perhaps briefly in the Archives) Robert Borsky makes \nan elaborate argument that Appian is Thecla's father. Most of the evidence \nhe uses stems from clues that Appian was involved in her upbringing. There \nseems very little to suggest he has a genetic connection to her.\n\nI can imagine Appian on his return to Urth, recently unmanned, forever to be \nchildless, deciding to steal the living paracoita (Thecla's mother?) from \nthe disgusting ship's cook, and taking her back with to Urth with him. Young \nwomen seem to be of interest to him, considering his later profession as \npimp madame/daddy for the House Azure and his excessive interest in \ndiscussing Dorcas with Severian. Thecla's memories of her mother suggest \nsomething strange, like cloning was going on.\n\nAnd what would Hethor then do when the theft was discovered? Perhaps use \nthe dying pets he fed to help stage a mutiny, become captain, try flying the \nship to Urth to retrieve his paracoita.\n\nWell, just some thoughts\n\nBsharp" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3B8AD802-2F90-474A-989F-77E46D434B4B@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew King", "address": "automatthew at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-05T16:17:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On May 5, 2006, at 6:57 AM, b sharp wrote:\nOkay, my last thoughts on this. So it looks like the only two \ncharacters\nwith explicitly described violet/purple eyes are Thecla and the \nparacoita.\nHethor blames his \"shipmates\" and \"not shipmates\" (or was it \n\"crewmates\"?)\nfor stealing her. Perhaps \"not shipmate\" means passenger? There \nis one\ncharacter who was both a passenger on the Quasar ship and is \nassociated with\nThecla, which is the old Autarch, Appian." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"What kind of men could do as they have done - thieves, false \nfriends, betrayers, bad\nshipmates, no shipmates, murderers and kidnappers.\"\n\nThis appears to be a string of epithets, not an enumeration of those \ninvolved. I read \"no shipmates\" as a reply and extension to \"bad \nshipmates\".\n\nI.e. \"Bad shipmates? They are not my mates at all!\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mournings glory", "address": "mourningsglory at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-06T01:17:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"b sharp\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In Solar Labyrinth(and perhaps briefly in the Archives) Robert Borsky makes\nan elaborate argument that Appian is Thecla's father. Most of the evidence\nhe uses stems from clues that Appian was involved in her upbringing. There\nseems very little to suggest he has a genetic connection to her." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I came across what is either an interesting clue in this regard, a typo, or \nsloppy copy-editing, depending on your druthers.\n\nIn Chapter VI of _Shadow_ Severian is reading a note from Master Gurloes:\n\n\"'By the will of a court we have in our keeping the exulted person of the \nChatelaine Thecla; and by its further will we would furnish to the \nChatelaine Thecla in her confinement such comforts as lie not beyond reason \nand prudence. That she may while away the moments until her time with us is \ncome - or rather, as she has instructed me to say, until the heart of the \nAutarch, whose forebearance knows not walls nor seas, is softened toward \nher, as she prays she asks that you, consonant with your office, provide her \nwith certain books...'\"\n\nNow what is the oddest word in all of the above paragraph? It's \n\"forebearance\" with an -e, which relates to *ancestral* forebearers, not to \n\"the action or habit of forbearing.\" In the other four books of the Urth \ncycle, Wolfe also always uses the e- version of 'forebears' to mean \nancestors and the non-e version 'forbear' to mean, \"to bear with, have \npatience with, put up with, tolerate.\"\n\nSo is this indeed a secret clue as to Thecla's paternity? Or simply a \ntypo/copyediting mistake? (Speaking of which, has the Garsec/Garvaon mistake \nbeen corrected in the trade paperback edition of _Wizard Knight_? Sad to \nsay, but the very nice SFBC edition of _Book of the Short Sun_, despite \nbeing printed on much higher quality paper, perpetuates all the typos of the \noriginal edition, which is surely the most error-ridden of any Wolfe book, \nprimary or secondary.)\n\nAlso, if not a typo, however would such wordplay survive translation into \nanother language?\n\nMe sSe eg" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Rex Racer", "address": "rex.racerx at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-06T02:32:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Actually, forebearance with an e is an acceptable variant of forbearance, so\nit is not even a typo or editorial error. I actually would use it a lot in a\nformer life writing letters that required such serious precise verbiage\n\nJust as \"grey\" seems darker to me than \"gray,\" forebearance just seems more\n\"serious\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/5/06, mournings glory wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: \"b sharp\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "In Solar Labyrinth(and perhaps briefly in the Archives) Robert Borsky\nmakes\nan elaborate argument that Appian is Thecla's father. Most of the\nevidence\nhe uses stems from clues that Appian was involved in her upbringing." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There\nseems very little to suggest he has a genetic connection to her.\n\nI came across what is either an interesting clue in this regard, a typo,\nor\nsloppy copy-editing, depending on your druthers.\n\nIn Chapter VI of _Shadow_ Severian is reading a note from Master Gurloes:\n\n\"'By the will of a court we have in our keeping the exulted person of the\nChatelaine Thecla; and by its further will we would furnish to the\nChatelaine Thecla in her confinement such comforts as lie not beyond\nreason\nand prudence. That she may while away the moments until her time with us\nis\ncome - or rather, as she has instructed me to say, until the heart of the\nAutarch, whose forebearance knows not walls nor seas, is softened toward\nher, as she prays she asks that you, consonant with your office, provide\nher\nwith certain books...'\"\n\nNow what is the oddest word in all of the above paragraph? It's\n\"forebearance\" with an -e, which relates to *ancestral* forebearers, not\nto\n\"the action or habit of forbearing.\" In the other four books of the Urth\ncycle, Wolfe also always uses the e- version of 'forebears' to mean\nancestors and the non-e version 'forbear' to mean, \"to bear with, have\npatience with, put up with, tolerate.\"\n\nSo is this indeed a secret clue as to Thecla's paternity? Or simply a\ntypo/copyediting mistake? (Speaking of which, has the Garsec/Garvaon\nmistake\nbeen corrected in the trade paperback edition of _Wizard Knight_? Sad to\nsay, but the very nice SFBC edition of _Book of the Short Sun_, despite\nbeing printed on much higher quality paper, perpetuates all the typos of\nthe\noriginal edition, which is surely the most error-ridden of any Wolfe book,\nprimary or secondary.)\n\nAlso, if not a typo, however would such wordplay survive translation into\nanother language?\n\nMe sSe eg\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mournings glory", "address": "mourningsglory at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-06T03:39:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Rex Racer\" \n\nActually, forebearance with an e is an acceptable variant of forbearance, \nso\nit is not even a typo or editorial error. I actually would use it a lot in \na\nformer life writing letters that required such serious precise verbiage" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But you will allow that forebearance can also mean pertaining to one's \nforebears, right? And while you may be correct about the usage of \nforebearance for forbearance in the personal correspondence of yesteryear, \nyou will not find the variant spelling listed anywhere at all in Wolfe's \nbeloved dictionary of choice, the O.E.D. -- which seems curious to me since \nit generally lists all known variants, even when obsolete or rare. \nForbearance, on the other hand, appears 27 times and as early as 1593, in \nShakespeare's Henry VI. Might you therefor (a pertinent OED variant, no?) \nhave an alternate reputable source for your claim?\n\nM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Rex Racer", "address": "rex.racerx at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-06T13:02:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyes of Thecla", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have common usage, and a couple of dictionaries at hand here that have\nforebearance listed as a variant of forbearance and make no reference to it\nhaving to do with parentage. I have seen it with an e and without, and have\nused it with an e or with out. I think too much is being read into the use\nof a variant spelling. It isn't something from the the personal\ncorrespondence of yesteryear, either, as I am not yet 40 and used it in a\nbusiness context. :-)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/5/06, mournings glory wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: \"Rex Racer\" \n\nActually, forebearance with an e is an acceptable variant of forbearance,\nso\nit is not even a typo or editorial error. I actually would use it a lot\nin\na\nformer life writing letters that required such serious precise verbiage" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But you will allow that forebearance can also mean pertaining to one's\nforebears, right? And while you may be correct about the usage of\nforebearance for forbearance in the personal correspondence of yesteryear,\nyou will not find the variant spelling listed anywhere at all in Wolfe's\nbeloved dictionary of choice, the O.E.D. -- which seems curious to me\nsince\nit generally lists all known variants, even when obsolete or rare.\nForbearance, on the other hand, appears 27 times and as early as 1593, in\nShakespeare's Henry VI. Might you therefor (a pertinent OED variant, no?)\nhave an alternate reputable source for your claim?\n\nM\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<004b01c673c7$aecf5fb0$0afa06cf@rw9s6no3t0dhzd>", "from": { "name": "Russell Wodell", "address": "wrustle at telus.net" }, "date": "2006-05-10T00:21:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I wonder if it might make sense to begin by building the wiki section on the Latro novels, since (a) they are relatively self-contained and (b) \"Soldier of Sidon\" is due this fall and many readers will be re-familiarizing themselves with the first two books.\n\nOn a totally separate note: Has anyone else wondered why Wolfe has never referred to the two most famous vulpine authors: Thomas Wolfe and Virginia Woolf?\n\nRussell Wodell" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maru dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-10T01:41:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WikiWolfe", "in_reply_to": "<004b01c673c7$aecf5fb0$0afa06cf@rw9s6no3t0dhzd>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In 5/9/06, Russell Wodell wrote:\n\nI wonder if it might make sense to begin by building the wiki section on the\nLatro novels, since (a) they are relatively self-contained and (b) \"Soldier\nof Sidon\" is due this fall and many readers will be re-familiarizing\nthemselves with the first two books.\n\nOn a totally separate note: Has anyone else wondered why Wolfe has never\nreferred to the two most famous vulpine authors: Thomas Wolfe and Virginia\nWoolf?\n\n\nRussell Wodell" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It would be a good idea, but as many people have discovered to their\nrue on many different wikis, it's hard to force volunteers to do a\nparticular subset of the ToDo list. I know I don't have any of the\nSoldier series, so it would be fairly difficult for me, at least.\n\n~maru" } ] } ] }