{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4585", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4585, "subject": "Ship Citadel", "messages": 8, "voices": 6, "first": "2006-05-06T04:16:34+00:00", "last": "2006-05-07T06:11:39+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-06T04:16:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ship Citadel", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, interesting. Roy's reference to Urth XXXV was illuminating actually \nin that an officer tells Severian he is being taken, \"To the old port. One \nof the hulks there has been fitted up to hold prisoners\". So perhaps the \nCitadel is constructed of more than one old ship. But spaceship it is, as \nevidence by these other passages:\n\nShadow III: Description of the Matachin Tower- \"(for the examination room \nwas the propulsive chamber of the original structure)\".\n\nShadow XI: Description of Severian's new room after elevation- \"because I \nwas the most junior of the journeymen, the least desirable in the tower, a \nportless cubbyhole\".\n\nUrth XXXVII: Description of the port in Severian's cell (Roche's future \nbedchamber)- \"its broad, smooth flanges, of a shaped I had never considered, \nhad clearly been intended to hold the void at bay\"\n\nI think there are one or two more I can't find scattered in the text. I \nwonder if perhaps the many towers of the citadel were made from the former \ngiant masts. Just speculation there.\n\n-Bsharp" } ] }, { "message_id": "<200605060611.k466BhHI065610@mailserver3.hushmail.com>", "from": { "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com", "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com" }, "date": "2006-05-06T06:11:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ship Citadel", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 06 May 2006 14:16:34 +1000 b sharp \n wrote:\nWell, interesting. Roy's reference to Urth XXXV was illuminating \nactually \nin that an officer tells Severian he is being taken, \"To the old \nport. One \nof the hulks there has been fitted up to hold prisoners\". So \nperhaps the \nCitadel is constructed of more than one old ship. But spaceship \nit is, as \nevidence by these other passages:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\n\nActually, I think it is very clear that the individual \"towers\" in \nthe Citadel are spaceships. The Citadel itself isn't." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1a0930df0605060459l754b1e13k7b93bc1e3286796a@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Duncan Truter", "address": "dtruter at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-06T11:59:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ship Citadel", "in_reply_to": "<200605060611.k466BhHI065610@mailserver3.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "there's a part where he compares his tower to other structures that\nwere not meant to fly (to paraphrase) in one of the first four\nbooks... I can't remember :)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/6/06, thalassocrat at nym.hush.com wrote:\n\n\nOn Sat, 06 May 2006 14:16:34 +1000 b sharp\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, interesting. Roy's reference to Urth XXXV was illuminating\nactually\nin that an officer tells Severian he is being taken, \"To the old\nport. One\nof the hulks there has been fitted up to hold prisoners\". So\nperhaps the\nCitadel is constructed of more than one old ship. But spaceship\nit is, as\nevidence by these other passages:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\n\nActually, I think it is very clear that the individual \"towers\" in\nthe Citadel are spaceships. The Citadel itself isn't.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Rex Racer", "address": "rex.racerx at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-06T13:09:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ship Citadel", "in_reply_to": "<200605060611.k466BhHI065610@mailserver3.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes. The supporting evidence after the bit you quite applies to individual\n\"landers\" that have been converted to towers, landers/spaceships that were\nat rest on a regular old space port. The Citadel is a collection of towers\nand walls, not a monolithic construct studded with other ships." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/6/06, thalassocrat at nym.hush.com wrote:\n\n\n\nOn Sat, 06 May 2006 14:16:34 +1000 b sharp\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, interesting. Roy's reference to Urth XXXV was illuminating\nactually\nin that an officer tells Severian he is being taken, \"To the old\nport. One\nof the hulks there has been fitted up to hold prisoners\". So\nperhaps the\nCitadel is constructed of more than one old ship. But spaceship\nit is, as\nevidence by these other passages:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\n\nActually, I think it is very clear that the individual \"towers\" in\nthe Citadel are spaceships. The Citadel itself isn't.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060506181838.48596.qmail@web51109.mail.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Macronaut", "address": "macronaut at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-05-06T18:18:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ship Citadel", "in_reply_to": "<1a0930df0605060459l754b1e13k7b93bc1e3286796a@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There's also a reference in UOTNS to the Beast Tower having originally been a \"Zoetic Transport.\"\n\nMacronaut\n\nDuncan Truter wrote: there's a part where he compares his tower to other structures that\nwere not meant to fly (to paraphrase) in one of the first four\nbooks... I can't remember :)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/6/06, thalassocrat at nym.hush.com wrote:\n\n\nOn Sat, 06 May 2006 14:16:34 +1000 b sharp\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, interesting. Roy's reference to Urth XXXV was illuminating\nactually\nin that an officer tells Severian he is being taken, \"To the old\nport. One\nof the hulks there has been fitted up to hold prisoners\". So\nperhaps the\nCitadel is constructed of more than one old ship. But spaceship\nit is, as\nevidence by these other passages:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Actually, I think it is very clear that the individual \"towers\" in\nthe Citadel are spaceships. The Citadel itself isn't.\n\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "<001001c6713c$7fa60140$a23ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-05-06T18:40:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ship Citadel", "in_reply_to": "<20060506181838.48596.qmail@web51109.mail.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Bsharp wrote:\nWell, interesting. Roy's reference to Urth XXXV was illuminating actually\nin that an officer tells Severian he is being taken, \"To the old port. One\nof the hulks there has been fitted up to hold prisoners\". So perhaps the\nCitadel is constructed of more than one old ship. But spaceship it is, as\nevidence by these other passages:\n\nShadow III: Description of the Matachin Tower- \"(for the examination room\nwas the propulsive chamber of the original structure)\".\n\nShadow XI: Description of Severian's new room after elevation- \"because I\nwas the most junior of the journeymen, the least desirable in the tower, a\nportless cubbyhole\".\n\nUrth XXXVII: Description of the port in Severian's cell (Roche's future\nbedchamber)- \"its broad, smooth flanges, of a shaped I had never\nconsidered,\nhad clearly been intended to hold the void at bay\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The above passages prove only that the Matachin Tower was a spaceship. More\nthan once in the Urth cycle Severian dreams/imagines the old spaceships\nblasting off into space. Somewhere he speculates that, ancient as the\nCitadel may be, the tunnels beneath it antedate it. There is no doubt about\nit; most of the \"towers\" in the Citadel are individual spaceships.\n\nBut if you want more direct proof:\n\n\"The Citadel itself was visible now as a whole, and for all its vastness\nseemed a glittering flock fluttering upon the hill, its thousand metal\ntowers ready to leap into the air at a word.\" CITADEL, chapter XXXVII\n\nAnd in the next chapter he went looking for Valeria from above.\n\n\"I asked the castellan for a map. After much searching he produced one,\nlarge and old, cracked in many places. It showed the curtain wall whole, but\nthe names of the towers were not the names I knew - or that the castellan\nknew, for that matter - and there were towers on that map that are not in\nthe Citadel, and towers in the Citadel that were not on that map.\n\" I ordered a flier then, and for half a day soared among the towers. No\ndoubt I saw the place I sought many times, but if so I did not recognize\nit.\"\n\nThe map obviously dated to a time when the Citadel was still being used as a\nspaceport.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-07T03:09:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) ship citadel", "in_reply_to": "<001001c6713c$7fa60140$a23ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Okay, some misunderstanding. I thought it was being argued that no part of \nthe citadel was a spaceship. It seems the concensus is that only parts of it \nwere spaceships (especially if Duncan Truter's citation can be found and it \ndoes sound familiar to me)." } ] }, { "message_id": "<000c01c6719d$1d512860$293ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-05-07T06:11:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) ship citadel", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Bsharp wrote:\nOkay, some misunderstanding. I thought it was being argued that no part of\nthe citadel was a spaceship. It seems the concensus is that only parts of\nit\nwere spaceships (especially if Duncan Truter's citation can be found and it\ndoes sound familiar to me)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "He must be thinking of a long paragraph in chapter XXX of CLAW, when\nSeverian was thinking of his childhood visit to the witches' tower, where he\nfirst saw Merryn. His description of that tower shows it to be merely a tall\nbuilding, after the fashion of modern skyscrapers. It lacked the solidity he\nwas used to in his old spaceship home.\n\n-Roy" } ] } ] }