{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4610",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4610,
    "subject": "5HoC and BotNS",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2006-05-23T01:11:28+00:00",
    "last": "2006-05-23T01:11:28+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<BAY103-F13A1AA51D54FFF6FFB0253D79B0@phx.gbl>",
      "from": {
        "name": "b sharp",
        "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2006-05-23T01:11:28+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) 5HoC and BotNS",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "We know that Fifth Head of Cerberus started as a novella and became a novel \nwith two added sections.  I suspect that Wolfe considered it an imperfect \nwork, perhaps because nobody could fully understand it. I think he hoped \nBotNS would perfect his 5HoC (novella) themes and become his masterwork.  I \nthink he succeeded in these goals but didn't guess that after 20 years of \nintensive analysis nobody would fully understand this one either.\n\nBoth 5HoC and BotNS depict a future in which a past era of earth is somewhat \nre-enacted.  BotNS is further in the future and recreates a more distant \npast but the mood is similarly dark at least to start.  Both stories focus \non a protaganist thrust into an occupation at the underbelly of society \n(prostitution and torture).  Both protaganists are tall and thin (as adults) \nwith dark hair and eyes.  Both stories feature an ingenue with violet eyes, \ndark hair and a prominent widow's peak.  Cerberus (Wolfe) has 5 heads, while \na mausoleum with 5 coffins holds a key to Severian's future (or origin?)\n\n5HoC rather openly discusses the mystery of cloning but has a subcurrent \nmystery regarding shape shifters and human duplication.  This mystery is \nblurted openly once, through \"Veil's Hypothesis\" or twice if you count #5's \nrant at Dr. Marsch then shrouded for the remainder.  We get only glimpses \nand hints in the rest of the story despite its central importance.  The \nboundary between beast and human is a subtext (I think that's the right \nterm) topic as the story progresses.\n\nBotNS (with UotNS) introduces time travel paradoxes and the boundary between \nhuman and angel is also explored.  These topics are not especially veiled.  \nBut I believe the mysteries of cloning and shapeshifting remain in play and \nare veiled.  In fact, each is mentioned (a la Veil's Hypothesis) only  once \nor twice openly (I think).  Cloning is mentioned by the old Autarch to \nSeverian in reference to kaibits.  And shapeshifting is mentioned explicitly \nin Melito's and Foila's stories. But I think both cloning and shapeshifting \nare hinted at and glimpsed indirectly all throughout BotNS.\n\nWolfe has stated his books tend to be a bit autobiographically inspired (was \nhis first girlfriend violet eyed, dark haired with a widow's peak?).  It is \neasy to guess that #5 and Severian are likely Wolfe proxies.  I think others \nin this Community can offer other candidates.  I think Wolfe may also have \nprojected himself into one unlikely character, Agia.\n\nI say this based on a description of Agia by Dorcas. Severian thinks Agia is \nmore clever than him but Dorcas says no,\n\" She's the sort of woman who's good at making puzzles for other people, but \nnot at solving ones she didn't make herself. I think she thinks--I don't \nknow--sidewise.  So no one else can follow it.\"\n\nI don't know whether Wolfe has undestimated his own intelligence or \noverestimated the intelligence of his readers but I can't imagine he foresaw \nthat only the research and mind-melding functions of the magical tool called \nthe internet would allow many of his mysteries to finally approach solution. \n  But perhaps some mysteries will always remain.\n\n-bsharp"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}