{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4613",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4613,
    "subject": "therians",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2006-05-24T15:12:49+00:00",
    "last": "2006-05-24T15:12:49+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<BAY103-F267B89882684A319701D0AD7980@phx.gbl>",
      "from": {
        "name": "b sharp",
        "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2006-05-24T15:12:49+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) therians",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Dan'l asks:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "are there any human-scale cacogens on Urth who are _not_ Hierish?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "and later says:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Heh. The question was bait and I got switched! I guess I was trying to see \nif, for example, anyone >would suggest the alzabo as a cacogen: certainly, \na case can be made."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Maybe, since it is alien and has a personality(s), though stolen. Do we want \nto stretch the cacogen definition to include the salamander?  The slug? The \navern? These are somewhat lacking in personality.  And since cacogen is \ndefined as a social class, we expect its members to be persons.\n\nAnyway cacogens are hated on Urth (hm, why? lol) and stay out of sight. But \nTzadkiel's ship is a more pluralisitc, multi-race society and might be a \nbetter place to search them out.\n\nThen Dan'l asks:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "What human-scale \"therians\" can you point to?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Jeff Wilson answers:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "The various human-animal hybrids serving the autarch, from the mastiff men \nin the coach full of >gold, to the anpiels, and perhaps even the ape-men in \nthe mine at Saltus."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "We can add Thecla's cat nurses, the jiber bear man and others to this list.  \nBut I don't think it is on the mark. A therian is a shamanistic, \nshapeshifting person associated with a certain animal.  These creatures seem \npermanently fixed in their human/animal form.  Say, what Commonwealth cult \nof biotechnologists could be mass-producing these genetic hybrids?\n\nAre the megatherians (i.e. Abaia, Erebus et al.) human or alien? I think \nthere is evidence pointing  both ways.  The undines are in human form and so \nif they are the daughters of Abaia it suggests he has a human origin.  \nTherefore, if undines are kilotherians and Baldanders is a dekatherian then \nperhaps they all originate on urth.\n\nSome evidence for their alien origin exists in a string of oddly related \nfacts:\n1. Jonas tells the story of a woman who throws a handful of black beans, \nbrought from the stars, into the ocean, which grow into monsters.  2. beans \nare seeds  3. Agilus calls the avern seed a stone.  4. We hear, over and \nover before the avern duel, the name Cadroe of the 17 stones. 5. There are \n17 megatherians. (More evidence for alien origin below)\n\nBut Dan'l wants to know about human-sized therians.  I submit The Cumaean, \nFather Inire and Hethor as shapeshifters associated with a certain animal- \nsnake, monkey and (maybe) slug respectively. Are they hieros? The text says \nyes to the Cumaean. I'll say Father Inire is a probable yes and Hethor rates \na formerly yes.\n\nThe shape shifting and the short, old, twisted appearance of all three \ncombined with the fact that sometimes their eyes are revealed to be shining \nleads me to think they originate from Sainte Anne.  There is a strong \nshamanistic component to the magic of the abos/shadow children. Moreover \nthis is only one of a number of connections to 5th Head I see in BotNS.\n\n-bsharp"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}