{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4625", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4625, "subject": "monsters and names", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2006-05-26T17:54:03+00:00", "last": "2006-05-27T01:18:08+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<30656830.1148666043869.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2006-05-26T17:54:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) monsters and names", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "b sharp says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, interesting. It seems there are at least two or three here who flout \nthe naming convention that urth humans have saint names and aliens have \nmythological names in BotNS. So Typhon (hundred headed Greek demon), \nBaldanders (Borges growing giant) and presumably Talos (bronze man, foe of \nJason) are humans in BotNS." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Coming late to this, but it is verifiably not *humans* that are named after saints.\nIt is citizens of the Commonwealth who are. Ascians are not named after saints.\nAlternately, Typhon's daughter (and I presume we can extrapolate the others as\nwell) IS named after a saint.\n\nLater, the crew and cargo of the Whorl will not have saint names.\n\nSo were Abia, Erebus, Scylla, etc originally human or were they \"aliens\"? IMO\nLikely they were originally human. There is certainly nothing especially\ninhuman about Typhon in appearance -- except that one little thing, and that\n*is* a human body he's got, right? Until the Neighbors and the Inhumi, are\nthere any sentient beings in the entire Sun Cycle that are positively not\nhuman or decended from humans?\n\nIsn't there something *Wolfe himself* wrote or said either in one of the BotNS\nappendices, Castle of the Otter, or in an interview in which he discusses that\none obvious way to extend human life indefinitely is to extend growth? \nI'd bet a body part that there is, although I can't remember the location right now.\n\nJ" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mournings glory", "address": "mourningsglory at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-26T18:20:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) monsters and names", "in_reply_to": "<30656830.1148666043869.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: James Wynn " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Coming late to this, but it is verifiably not *humans* that are named after \nsaints.\nIt is citizens of the Commonwealth who are." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah, yes. I stand corrected. Only human citizens of the Commonwealth are \nnamed after saints." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Later, the crew and cargo of the Whorl will not have saint names." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My own small correction here: the hypernaut sleepers still retain their \nsaintly names; e.g., Mamelta and Roger.\n\nem" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-05-26T18:50:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) monsters and names", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "James makes a good correction on the saint names being for those humans of \nthe Commonwealth, not all humans.\n\nJames asks:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Isn't there something *Wolfe himself* wrote or said either in one of the \nBotNS\nappendices, Castle of the Otter, or in an interview in which he discusses \nthat\none obvious way to extend human life indefinitely is to extend growth?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ossipago (bonegrower) says it toward the end of Sword and that topic was \ndiscussed in more depth in some of the (mine included) Baldanders posts of \nthis month.\n\nJames asks:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Until the Neighbors and the Inhumi, are there any sentient beings in the \nentire Sun Cycle that are >positively not human or decended from humans?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Would you consider the original Jonas (and his brothers), Sidero etc. to be \nexamples? Someone recently asked how Talus brains were made and the same \nquestion could be asked about these mechanical men from ship Tzadkiel. If \ntheir brains were programmed from scratch then I think the answer to your \nquestion is yes.\n\nBut if their brains were created by the process which created Mr. Million, \nscanning a human brain, then I'd call them human descended. Since I \nstrongly suspect BotNS takes place in the 5th Head of Cerberus universe I \nthink mechanical brains are human in origin.\n\n-bsharp" } ] }, { "message_id": "<32122763.1148677734635.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2006-05-26T21:08:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) monsters and names", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Says I:\nit is verifiably not *humans* that are named after saints.\nIt is citizens of the Commonwealth who are." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mornings glory responds:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Ah, yes. I stand corrected. Only human citizens of the Commonwealth are \nnamed after saints." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Heh heh heh...That leaves a lot of room for different naming conventions.\nBut I agree that it strongly *does* imply that Typhon & Co were not born\nin the Commonwealth.\n\nI queried:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Isn't there something *Wolfe himself* wrote or said either in one of\nthe BotNS appendices, Castle of the Otter, or in an interview in which\nhe discusses that one obvious way to extend human life indefinitely is\nto extend growth?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "b sharp replied:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Ossipago (bonegrower) says it toward the end of Sword and that topic was \ndiscussed in more depth in some of the (mine included) Baldanders posts of \nthis month." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I was pretty sure there was something \"extra-narrative\" about it.\n\nI asked:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Until the Neighbors and the Inhumi, are there any sentient beings in the \nentire Sun Cycle that are >positively not human or decended from humans?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "b sharp said:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "...the original Jonas (and his brothers), Sidero etc. to be \nexamples? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, being made by humans, they are \"decended\" from humans.\nI presume the Hierogrammates to be \"decended\" from humans in\njust such a way. If there had been no humans, the Hierogrammates\nwould never have existed. The same with any beings made by the\nHierogrammates such as subsequent Severians.\n\nJ" } ] }, { "message_id": "<001d01c6812b$6daa6c20$2d3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-05-27T01:18:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) monsters and names", "in_reply_to": "<32122763.1148677734635.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Crush wrote:\nUntil the Neighbors and the Inhumi, are there any sentient beings in the\nentire Sun Cycle that are >positively not human or decended from humans?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Iirc, there were aliens serving as crewmen on other decks of Tzadkiel's\nship. But the most obvious groups are all those beings who were manipulated\nby the Hieros to engineer the Hierogrammates. Mankind's great sin. (\"The key\nto the Universe\", CITADEL)\n\n-Roy" } ] } ] }