{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4637",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4637,
    "subject": "Domnicellae",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2006-05-31T11:33:44+00:00",
    "last": "2006-05-31T22:19:07+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<BAY103-F1162E02FB9C57A6E549127D7930@phx.gbl>",
      "from": {
        "name": "b sharp",
        "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2006-05-31T11:33:44+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Domnicellae",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Roy, good point. I think this is another example of Wolfe misleading us.  \nAnd when he misleads us it is always to mask an important fact. In fact, \nnoticing this deception was a big part of establishing Rule 2a. for me. (the \nmysterious relationship between Pelagia-Pega and Robert Borski's puzzlement \nover Josephina-Josepha were the others).\n\nI don't have my books but I think I remember accurately.  When Severian \nfirst meets the Pelerines one of the acolytes or slaves objects to the tall \nleader \"but, Domnicellae!\"  Severian (and I until recently) thinks this is \nher title (as the \"Domni- prefix might suggest) and later, thinking Cyriaca \nis a Pelerine, begs her for forgiveness, \"shrive, me Domnicellae\".  Cyriaca \nthinks this is a very clever and hilarious joke for a fellow masquerader, a \nfaux torturer no less, to call her by the name of the leader of the \nPelerines.\n\nIn the Lazaret at Orithya (Oritheya? sheesh, sorry can't remember), one of \nthe Pelerines mentions that \"our Domnicellae isn't here\" or something like \nthat.  Again sounds like a title, but it could be a term of endearment among \nsisters.  Like, \"however, our Mannea is here\".\n\nLater, though, Cyriaca makes it clear that the title of the leader of the \nPelerines is The Mother.  Merryn also uses this term for the leader of the \nvery closely related sisterhood, the Witches.  I think Cyriaca is first \ndrawn to Severian (in small part) because of his cleverness.   He doesn't \njust say \"shrive me, Mother\" as a less clever jokester would do.  Cyriaca \nhasn't been a  Pelerine for a long time but she has stayed in touch.  She \nwould know the personal name of The Mother.\n\nNow, it could be assumed that Josepha is just a nickname for Josephina and \nDomnina the same for Domnicellae. I think this is why Wolfe included Pega \nand Pelagia in Urth, a book meant in part (I think), to clarify some of the \npuzzles in BotNS that Wolfe finally had to admit he made too difficult or \nvague to ever solve.\n\nI'm sure there are those who would object that this is all conjecture. That \nthey could just be nicknames and Pega-Pelagia is just a coincidence and that \nDomnicellae and The Mother are both titles for the leader, nullifying Rule \n2a.  For me the problem is this:  we are left with no names for any kaibits.\n\nIf the kaibits were comatose in tanks, hidden in some closet for the \nexultant women to go in and get their daily fix then I could understand \ntheir lack of names. But kaibits are living as regular people and \ninteracting (more or less, lol) normally with other people including their \nmistress/cell donor. Thus they need their own names.  If someone has a \nbetter naming rule or list for kaibits then I am interested in hearing it.  \nBut this one seems to work pretty well and the option of leaving them \nnameless seems unacceptable.  Names are very important to Gene Wolfe.\n\n-bsharp"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<200605311819.07560.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Daniel D Jones",
        "address": "ddjones at riddlemaster.org"
      },
      "date": "2006-05-31T22:19:07+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Domnicellae",
      "in_reply_to": "<BAY103-F1162E02FB9C57A6E549127D7930@phx.gbl>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Wednesday 31 May 2006 07:33, b sharp wrote:\nRoy, good point. I think this is another example of Wolfe misleading us."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I, for one, would find it extremely beneficial if you'd quote what, exactly, \nyou think it is that's a good point.  There's been so many messages flowing \nin here lately that it's quite difficult to keep track without a quote to \nprovide context."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}