{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4643", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4643, "subject": "single parent families", "messages": 7, "voices": 6, "first": "2006-06-07T10:24:44+00:00", "last": "2006-06-09T06:40:53+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-07T10:24:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) single parent families", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As a BotNS fanatic I have noticed a complete absence (I think, any \nexceptions?) of \"normal\" two parent families in the series. All the child \ncharacters have either one or zero parents to interact with. The closest we \nsee to an intact nuclear family is Casdoe's, but of course her chapter is \ntitled \"the Widow\". From my lesser familiarity with his other works, I \nthink this trend might extend to the greater Wolfe universe but I'm not \nsure. Anyone else have thoughts on this?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370606071128v5de6dad2nc58fab48d48f8823@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-07T18:28:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) single parent families", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/7/06, b sharp wrote:\nAs a BotNS fanatic I have noticed a complete absence (I think, any\nexceptions?) of \"normal\" two parent families in the series. All the child\ncharacters have either one or zero parents to interact with. The closest we\nsee to an intact nuclear family is Casdoe's, but of course her chapter is\ntitled \"the Widow\". From my lesser familiarity with his other works, I\nthink this trend might extend to the greater Wolfe universe but I'm not\nsure. Anyone else have thoughts on this?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "H'mmm.\n\nIt's certainly true of 5HC -- #5 has only Maitre, the shadow-child\ndoesn't have much of a paternal presence (vague memory, y'know),\nand VRT's mum vanished years ago.\n\nIt's true of Patera Silk, who had no \"present\" father.\n\nIt's true of PEACE; Weer's parents are both alive during his\nchildhood but noticeably \"absent.\"\n\nArthur Ormsby's family situation prior to falling into the Seven\nWorlds in TWK is ambiguous at best; it _seems_ that he's\nbeing raised by his older brother Ben.\n\nThe biggest exception seems to be Horn's happy household\non Blue: both parents are there to raise the kids, at least until\nhe wanders off to find Silk.\n\n--Dan'l" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him.\n -- St Teresa of Avila\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tristan Davenport", "address": "tristan_davenport at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-07T18:49:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) single parent families", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "b sharp wrote:\nAs a BotNS fanatic I have noticed a complete absence (I think, any\nexceptions?) of \"normal\" two parent families in the series. All the child\ncharacters have either one or zero parents to interact with. The closest \nwe\nsee to an intact nuclear family is Casdoe's, but of course her chapter is\ntitled \"the Widow\". From my lesser familiarity with his other works, I\nthink this trend might extend to the greater Wolfe universe but I'm not\nsure. Anyone else have thoughts on this?\n\n\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I haven't read everything of Wolfe's by any stretch of the imagination, \neither, but you seem to be onto a pattern. Parent-child estrangement \nhappens for just about every reason possible in the Book of the Long Sun. \nThe only nuclear family we really see -- the gods don't count because Typhon \nis dead/in storage for most of the book -- is Horn and Nettle. But they \ndon't have children until the very last chapter.\n\nIn There are Doors a nuclear familie is impossible: men die shortly after \nhaving sex.\n\nIn the few Wolfe short stories I've read that involve children, absent \nfathers (and often mothers) seem to be the rule. The Island of Doctor Death \n(single mom with a revolving door policy on boyfriends), The Death of Doctor \nIsland (children are institutionalized), The Eyeflash Miracles (boy travels \nalone, but meets a stand-in father figure).\n\nIt seems that the father stand-in is an equally common pattern: Patera Pike \nfor Silk, Severian for Little Severian, Latro for Io (though he later has a \nromance with her, if I remember right??), perhaps Dr. Death for the boy in \nthat story...\n\nI don't have any analysis of this, but the trend is definitely present in \nwhat I've read of Wolfe.\n\n~Tristan" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4b3.1962707.31b9a625@aol.com>", "from": { "name": "DhSunanda at aol.com", "address": "dhsunanda at aol.com" }, "date": "2006-06-08T16:11:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) single parent families", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Re: (urth) single parent families" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "La Befana (short story) has an \"ideal\" two parent + two kids + incoming \ngrandmother family. With only a six-legged alien as a neighbour.\n\nThe War beneath the Tree is a slow-burning horror story in a perfect 2p+1c \nfamily.\n\n\"Pandora\" by Holly Hollander is a novel about a 2p+1c family too. \n\nThose three from memory.\n\nBut memory can be suspect.\n\nSunanda" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-08T20:49:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) single parent families", "in_reply_to": "<4b3.1962707.31b9a625@aol.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, only children are another of Wolfe's themes that he's mentioned in \nessays - I can't refer to the originals, but they are quoted in Wright's \nbook, \"Attending Daedelus\" - given that he was an only child.\n\nIf we're going to do a survey of this, though, I think we should focus \nmainly on the novels. I don't think anyone's mentioned the odd family \nsituation of Art Ormsby yet." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Re: (urth) single parent families" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "La Befana (short story) has an \"ideal\" two parent + two kids + incoming\ngrandmother family. With only a six-legged alien as a neighbour.\n\nThe War beneath the Tree is a slow-burning horror story in a perfect 2p+1c\nfamily.\n\n\"Pandora\" by Holly Hollander is a novel about a 2p+1c family too.\n\nThose three from memory.\n\nBut memory can be suspect.\n\nSunanda\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370606081422h2991a7f8tf4b93f2c79b65f4c@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-08T21:22:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) single parent families", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/8/06, Chris wrote:\nI don't think anyone's mentioned the odd family\nsituation of Art Ormsby yet." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ahem." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/7/06, Dan'l wrote:\nArthur Ormsby's family situation prior to falling into the Seven\nWorlds in TWK is ambiguous at best; it _seems_ that he's\nbeing raised by his older brother Ben." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "--Dan'l" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him.\n -- St Teresa of Avila\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer" } ] }, { "message_id": "<448917F5.40908@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2006-06-09T06:40:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) single parent families", "in_reply_to": "<4b3.1962707.31b9a625@aol.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "DhSunanda at aol.com wrote:\nRe: (urth) single parent families" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "La Befana (short story) has an \"ideal\" two parent + two kids + incoming \ngrandmother family. With only a six-legged alien as a neighbour." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not quite; they mention an expectant couple next door.\n\n\"Paul's Treehouse\" has Paul living in the tree behind his parents' house." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] } ] }