{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4654", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4654, "subject": "Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "messages": 9, "voices": 7, "first": "2006-06-15T02:39:02+00:00", "last": "2006-06-16T16:02:59+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<2fd.69453c5.31c22246@aol.com>", "from": { "name": "PMorris33 at aol.com", "address": "pmorris33 at aol.com" }, "date": "2006-06-15T02:39:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've long been an admirer of Gwyneth Jones. Her first science fiction book \n\"Divine Endurance\" was a perfect gem. And her book of criticism, \n\"Deconstructing The Starships\" is simply the best science fiction criticism I've ever \nread, pace Kingley Amis and John Clute.\n \nBut I'm having trouble with her fantasy series \"Bold As Love\". What's \nhappened to that beautiful Englishwoman? She's gone dead on the page. \n \nIs anyone else in the group a reader of Gwen Jones?\n \nI'd be interested in hearing your opinion.\n \nThanks to all of you\nPip" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Crossley", "address": "ishmael at drizzle.com" }, "date": "2006-06-15T05:27:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "in_reply_to": "<2fd.69453c5.31c22246@aol.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don’t know her work well, but I very much enjoyed . More fiction of\nscience than science fiction, if that makes any sense. It somehow reminded\nme of Byatt’s .\n\nWhat I’ve heard about this new series isn’t great.\n\nJames" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/14/06 7:39 PM, \"PMorris33 at aol.com\" wrote:\nI've long been an admirer of Gwyneth Jones. Her first science fiction book\n\"Divine Endurance\" was a perfect gem. And her book of criticism,\n\"Deconstructing The Starships\" is simply the best science fiction criticism\nI've ever read, pace Kingley Amis and John Clute.\n \nBut I'm having trouble with her fantasy series \"Bold As Love\". What's\nhappened to that beautiful Englishwoman? She's gone dead on the page.\n \nIs anyone else in the group a reader of Gwen Jones?\n \nI'd be interested in hearing your opinion.\n \nThanks to all of you\nPip\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<11c5e0e20606150939t1c4d868mda153c7c0826ae2e@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Los Arboles Del Frio", "address": "losarbolesdelfrio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-15T16:39:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Have you watched Miyazaki's movie 'Howl's Moving Castle'? It's a\ncartoon adaptation of one of Jones's books. Miyazaki is very well know for\nmovies such as My Neighbour Totoro, Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke." } ] }, { "message_id": "<11c5e0e20606150941t3bfba57dp63efddd9af9200ec@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Los Arboles Del Frio", "address": "losarbolesdelfrio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-15T16:41:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "in_reply_to": "<11c5e0e20606150939t1c4d868mda153c7c0826ae2e@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oops. That was actually Diana Wynne Jones. Still, a nice original movie I 'd\nrecomend to any lover of fantasy." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/15/06, Los Arboles Del Frio wrote:\n\nHave you watched Miyazaki's movie 'Howl's Moving Castle'? It's a\ncartoon adaptation of one of Jones's books. Miyazaki is very well know for\nmovies such as My Neighbour Totoro, Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke." } ] }, { "message_id": "<2124d6b10606150944qa231f78h1aa4e5c8843b240@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "pthwndxrclzp", "address": "aquastor at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-15T16:44:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "in_reply_to": "<2fd.69453c5.31c22246@aol.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sorry to begin by hijacking your post...but I am similarly dismayed by what\nI see as both Charles Stross' and John C. Wright's almost simultaneous shift\nfrom deft and enthralling sf to clunky, contrived, half-hearted fantasy.\nTheir sf is terrific, though.\n\nBack to the original topic, as for Ms. Jones, wow, I'm heading to the\nbookstore tomorrow . Thanks!\n\nAnd to try to keep things on-topic for the group at large, I'm surprised I\nhaven't heard mention of either David Herter or Alexander Jablokov, both of\nwhom strike me as being quite favorably Wolfean in their style, erudition,\nand recurrent bouts of playfully deliberate obscurity...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/14/06, PMorris33 at aol.com wrote:\n\n I've long been an admirer of Gwyneth Jones. Her first science fiction\nbook \"Divine Endurance\" was a perfect gem. And her book of criticism,\n\"Deconstructing The Starships\" is simply the best science fiction criticism\nI've ever read, *pace* Kingley Amis and John Clute.\n\nBut I'm having trouble with her fantasy series \"Bold As Love\". What's\nhappened to that beautiful Englishwoman? She's gone dead on the page.\n\nIs anyone else in the group a reader of Gwen Jones?\nI'd be interested in hearing your opinion.\n\nThanks to all of you\nPip\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Rob Thornton", "address": "oblate777 at speakeasy.net" }, "date": "2006-06-15T17:45:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "in_reply_to": "<2124d6b10606150944qa231f78h1aa4e5c8843b240@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And to try to keep things on-topic for the group at large, I'm surprised I\nhaven't heard mention of either David Herter or Alexander Jablokov, both of\nwhom strike me as being quite favorably Wolfean in their style, erudition,\nand recurrent bouts of playfully deliberate obscurity...." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Did someone say Alexander Jablokov? I strongly recommend his first novel \"Carve the Sky\" and now that Wolfe is invoked, I can see some connections. For example, \"Sky\" has a very involving worldscape and Jablokov takes some relish in tossing you in medias res and continously stirring in information rather than habitually using SFnal \"infodumps.\"\n\nUnfortunately, none of his later efforts really matched \"Carve the Sky\" but I strongly recommend \"Sky\"\n\nNow who is this Herter fellow? Actually, I haven't heard of him....\n\nback to the lurk,\n\nrob t." } ] }, { "message_id": "<2124d6b10606151050x2500242bj288e4ea1dc60f1df@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "pthwndxrclzp", "address": "aquastor at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-15T17:50:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Herter's first novel, \"Ceres Storm,\" came out in 2000. Dense, compelling,\ndefinitely Wolfean in approach, as noted. Link to Amazon listing for the\nbook:\nhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312874936/sr=8-3/qid=1150393596/ref=sr_1_3/104-4115854-4295931?%5Fencoding=UTF8\n\nInterestingly, Herter's next book (2002) was a fantasy, \"Evening's Empire.\"\nHaven't read it yet, but I'm not surprised to see the Amazon.com review page\nname-checking Gene Wolfe on the book.\nSee\nhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312870345/sr=8-2/qid=1150393596/ref=sr_1_2/104-4115854-4295931?%5Fencoding=UTF8" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/15/06, Rob Thornton wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And to try to keep things on-topic for the group at large, I'm surprised\nI\nhaven't heard mention of either David Herter or Alexander Jablokov, both\nof\nwhom strike me as being quite favorably Wolfean in their style,\nerudition,\nand recurrent bouts of playfully deliberate obscurity...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Did someone say Alexander Jablokov? I strongly recommend his first novel\n\"Carve the Sky\" and now that Wolfe is invoked, I can see some connections.\nFor example, \"Sky\" has a very involving worldscape and Jablokov takes some\nrelish in tossing you in medias res and continously stirring in information\nrather than habitually using SFnal \"infodumps.\"\n\nUnfortunately, none of his later efforts really matched \"Carve the Sky\"\nbut I strongly recommend \"Sky\"\n\nNow who is this Herter fellow? Actually, I haven't heard of him....\n\nback to the lurk,\n\nrob t.\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<08527679-E154-44FD-BCEE-9B99882B7E29@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Transentient", "address": "transentient at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-15T18:12:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jun 15, 2006, at 1:45 PM, Rob Thornton wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And to try to keep things on-topic for the group at large, I'm \nsurprised I\nhaven't heard mention of either David Herter or Alexander \nJablokov, both of\nwhom strike me as being quite favorably Wolfean in their style, \nerudition,\nand recurrent bouts of playfully deliberate obscurity...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Did someone say Alexander Jablokov? I strongly recommend his first \nnovel \"Carve the Sky\" and now that Wolfe is invoked, I can see some \nconnections. For example, \"Sky\" has a very involving worldscape \nand Jablokov takes some relish in tossing you in medias res and \ncontinously stirring in information rather than habitually using \nSFnal \"infodumps.\"\n\nUnfortunately, none of his later efforts really matched \"Carve the \nSky\" but I strongly recommend \"Sky\"\n\nNow who is this Herter fellow? Actually, I haven't heard of him...." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I rather thought _A Deeper Sea_ and _Nimbus_ were quite excellent. \nThe former was a fun little story on the surface, but carried an \nallegory to the fall of the ancient world through it which \ncontinually jumped back up in surprising new forms, and the latter I \nthought was just an excellent, edgy sf-mystery-thriller." } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060616160259.28718.qmail@web36808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Kate Savage", "address": "katesavage2001 at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-06-16T16:02:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing", "in_reply_to": "<08527679-E154-44FD-BCEE-9B99882B7E29@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Re: (urth) Unhappiness with fantasy writing\n pthwndxrclzp wrote on Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:44" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Sorry to begin by hijacking your post...but I am similarly dismayed by \nwhat I see as both Charles Stross' and John C. Wright's almost simultaneous \nshift from deft and enthralling sf to clunky, contrived, half-hearted \nfantasy.\nTheir sf is terrific, though" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n My understanding is that Stress' agent told him that if he wanted to improve sales, he needed to shift from hard sf to fantasy. The problem with hard sf is the bottom line - fantasies and paranormal romances marked to the fantasy community seem to be bringing in the most money these days. Look at the sale of ARCs on eBay - writers like Wolfe do not bring top dollar but Robert Jordan will.\n\n\nI have been having trouble with my Yahoo account. Please try my work email or call me if I don't return email in a timely fashion." } ] } ] }