{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4656", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4656, "subject": "Wiki", "messages": 21, "voices": 14, "first": "2006-06-23T21:55:57+00:00", "last": "2006-07-27T04:30:57+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<200606231755.57620.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "from": { "name": "Daniel D Jones", "address": "ddjones at riddlemaster.org" }, "date": "2006-06-23T21:55:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So, did the idea of a Lupine Wiki fall apart or what?\n\nI'm asking because I recently bought several Wolfe short story collections. \n(I'm currently reading the last story in \"The Island of Doctor Death...\") \nI'd love to be able to go to a Wiki and see some commentary on the stories \nafter I finish them. I get the feeling that I'm missing important things in \nseveral of them." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370606231811h6064c5f0rdf041d6d6cf610af@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-24T01:11:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<200606231755.57620.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/23/06, Daniel D Jones wrote:\nSo, did the idea of a Lupine Wiki fall apart or what?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Or what. Nobody belled the cat." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm asking because I recently bought several Wolfe short story\ncollections. (I'm currently reading the last story in \"The Island\nof Doctor Death...\") I'd love to be able to go to a Wiki and see\nsome commentary on the stories after I finish them. I get the\nfeeling that I'm missing important things in several of them." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Doubtless you are, module some appropriate definition\nof the word \"important.\" I suspect that most actually-\nimportant things (as opposed to clever references, etc.)\nwill become clear with rereading. At least, for that book.\n\n--Dan'l" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\n\"Shovels are essential to the fantasy genre.\nHowever, they are primarily used by the authors rather than the\ncharacters.\" -- Stephen R. Donaldson" } ] }, { "message_id": "<449CB26C.3000103@charter.net>", "from": { "name": "JWillard", "address": "aldenweer at charter.net" }, "date": "2006-06-24T03:33:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<200606231755.57620.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Daniel D Jones wrote:\nSo, did the idea of a Lupine Wiki fall apart or what?\n\nI'm asking because I recently bought several Wolfe short story collections. \n(I'm currently reading the last story in \"The Island of Doctor Death...\") \nI'd love to be able to go to a Wiki and see some commentary on the stories \nafter I finish them. I get the feeling that I'm missing important things in \nseveral of them.\n\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maru dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-06-26T17:04:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<449CB26C.3000103@charter.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/23/06, JWillard wrote:\nDaniel D Jones wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "So, did the idea of a Lupine Wiki fall apart or what?\n\nI'm asking because I recently bought several Wolfe short story collections.\n(I'm currently reading the last story in \"The Island of Doctor Death...\")\nI'd love to be able to go to a Wiki and see some commentary on the stories\nafter I finish them. I get the feeling that I'm missing important things in\nseveral of them." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm still game: Maru, tell us what you need us to do to get it moving\n:) Would it help to have a launch/design committee of some kind so that\nprojects could be assigned/decisions made? Are we still stuck on what\nkind of wiki to use? If we are, what's the simplest way to become\nunstuck? Public domain?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, I'm still interested. It's just that I've been having Internet\naccess problems (so I've got ~90! Urth.net email to catch up on), my\nother projects on Wikipedia proper have been slowly piling up, *and*\nmy job has gotten more demanding, physical-presence-wise. I'm working\nto resolve the first two, but I don't know how quickly I can free up\nmy time to work on a Wolfe wiki. I have a bit of a business trip\ncoming up this weekend, which is even *more* problematic, but assuming\nyou guys can decide on a license and a name (and all goes well on my\nend), I can probably start importing Wikipedia articles within a week\nor two.\n\nI don't really think a comittee is needed- I just think that we need\nto make some decisions. If it were up to me, I'd simply say \"Public\ndomain\" and \"Wolfe Wiki\", since the first can be legally changed later\n(public domain is compatible with all licenses, but it is one way...)\nand the latter is an obvious place holder, so no one really minds us\nchanging it- I mean, look at Wookieepedia, originally they were the\n\"Star Wars Wiki\". Nobody complains about such a change.\n\n~maru" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060627040534.43647.qmail@web34911.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Ian S", "address": "greenbook5 at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-06-27T04:05:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I mean, look at Wookieepedia, originally they were the\n\"Star Wars Wiki\". Nobody complains about such a\nchange.\n\n~maru\n\nUm...'Wolfopedia'anyone? ;)\n\nIan" } ] }, { "message_id": "<200606270716.47099.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "from": { "name": "Daniel D Jones", "address": "ddjones at riddlemaster.org" }, "date": "2006-06-27T11:16:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Monday 26 June 2006 13:04, maru dubshinki wrote:\nOn 6/23/06, JWillard wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Daniel D Jones wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "So, did the idea of a Lupine Wiki fall apart or what?\n\nI'm asking because I recently bought several Wolfe short story\ncollections. (I'm currently reading the last story in \"The Island of\nDoctor Death...\") I'd love to be able to go to a Wiki and see some\ncommentary on the stories after I finish them. I get the feeling that\nI'm missing important things in several of them." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm still game: Maru, tell us what you need us to do to get it moving\n\n:) Would it help to have a launch/design committee of some kind so that\n\nprojects could be assigned/decisions made? Are we still stuck on what\nkind of wiki to use? If we are, what's the simplest way to become\nunstuck? Public domain?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "No, I'm still interested. It's just that I've been having Internet\naccess problems (so I've got ~90! Urth.net email to catch up on), my\nother projects on Wikipedia proper have been slowly piling up, *and*\nmy job has gotten more demanding, physical-presence-wise. I'm working\nto resolve the first two, but I don't know how quickly I can free up\nmy time to work on a Wolfe wiki. I have a bit of a business trip\ncoming up this weekend, which is even *more* problematic, but assuming\nyou guys can decide on a license and a name (and all goes well on my\nend), I can probably start importing Wikipedia articles within a week\nor two.\n\nI don't really think a comittee is needed- I just think that we need\nto make some decisions. If it were up to me, I'd simply say \"Public\ndomain\" and \"Wolfe Wiki\", since the first can be legally changed later\n(public domain is compatible with all licenses, but it is one way...)\nand the latter is an obvious place holder, so no one really minds us\nchanging it- I mean, look at Wookieepedia, originally they were the\n\"Star Wars Wiki\". Nobody complains about such a change.\n\n~maru" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'd say just take the bull by the horns and start doing it. I've been tempted \nto do so myself but I really didn't want to step on anyone's toes by \nhighjacking their idea.\n\nThe only problem I see is importing stuff from the mailing list. I don't \nrecall seeing anything about the copyright of stuff sent to the list when \njoining the list, which means that an individual's post almost certainly \nbelongs to them. It seems to me that you'll need their explicit permission \nto import anything anyone else has written if you want to stay strictly \nlegal." } ] }, { "message_id": "<44A140C8.4030801@charter.net>", "from": { "name": "JWillard", "address": "aldenweer at charter.net" }, "date": "2006-06-27T14:29:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<200606270716.47099.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Daniel D Jones wrote:\nOn Monday 26 June 2006 13:04, maru dubshinki wrote:\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 6/23/06, JWillard wrote:\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Daniel D Jones wrote:\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "So, did the idea of a Lupine Wiki fall apart or what?\n\nI'm asking because I recently bought several Wolfe short story\ncollections. (I'm currently reading the last story in \"The Island of\nDoctor Death...\") I'd love to be able to go to a Wiki and see some\ncommentary on the stories after I finish them. I get the feeling that\nI'm missing important things in several of them.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I'm still game: Maru, tell us what you need us to do to get it moving\n\n:) Would it help to have a launch/design committee of some kind so that\n\nprojects could be assigned/decisions made? Are we still stuck on what\nkind of wiki to use? If we are, what's the simplest way to become\nunstuck? Public domain?\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "No, I'm still interested. It's just that I've been having Internet\naccess problems (so I've got ~90! Urth.net email to catch up on), my\nother projects on Wikipedia proper have been slowly piling up, *and*\nmy job has gotten more demanding, physical-presence-wise. I'm working\nto resolve the first two, but I don't know how quickly I can free up\nmy time to work on a Wolfe wiki. I have a bit of a business trip\ncoming up this weekend, which is even *more* problematic, but assuming\nyou guys can decide on a license and a name (and all goes well on my\nend), I can probably start importing Wikipedia articles within a week\nor two.\n\nI don't really think a comittee is needed- I just think that we need\nto make some decisions. If it were up to me, I'd simply say \"Public\ndomain\" and \"Wolfe Wiki\", since the first can be legally changed later\n(public domain is compatible with all licenses, but it is one way...)\nand the latter is an obvious place holder, so no one really minds us\nchanging it- I mean, look at Wookieepedia, originally they were the\n\"Star Wars Wiki\". Nobody complains about such a change.\n\n~maru\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'd say just take the bull by the horns and start doing it. I've been tempted \nto do so myself but I really didn't want to step on anyone's toes by \nhighjacking their idea.\n\nThe only problem I see is importing stuff from the mailing list. I don't \nrecall seeing anything about the copyright of stuff sent to the list when \njoining the list, which means that an individual's post almost certainly \nbelongs to them. It seems to me that you'll need their explicit permission \nto import anything anyone else has written if you want to stay strictly \nlegal.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060627201901.88649.qmail@web32415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "don doggett", "address": "kingwukong at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-06-27T20:19:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon", "in_reply_to": "<200606270716.47099.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi everyone,\n\n Some days are good days. I have in my hot little\nhands an advance reading copy of Soldier of Sidon just\nbegging me to read it. This means other than certain\nhome duties, all writing projects will be laid aside,\nall books on my 'list' will remain half finished and\nfood will be eaten at maximum speed for efficiency.\nSleep will be kept to a minimum. Hold all my calls.\n\nregards\n\nDon" } ] }, { "message_id": "<15616792.1151939768350.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2006-07-03T15:16:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<44A140C8.4030801@charter.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As somebody who at one time did a fair amount of posting to the list, I'm not thrilled with the idea of all my posts being thrust willy-nilly into the public domain. I'm even less thrilled with the idea that anybody would be able to edit my posts. I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way. Of course, if the plan is just to summarize the discussions on the list, that's different.\n\nIn general it's still not clear to me what the advantages are of a wiki over, say, an FAQ or FAQs combined with a message board. In fact, I would think a priori that a wiki would be a poor format for dealing with Wolfe, about whose work there is so little agreement. But I could well be wrong; it might help if I could see an example of a wiki which successfully does what you're expecting from a Wolfe wiki.\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<200607031317.40085.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "from": { "name": "Daniel D Jones", "address": "ddjones at riddlemaster.org" }, "date": "2006-07-03T17:17:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<15616792.1151939768350.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Monday 03 July 2006 11:16, Adam Stephanides wrote:\nAs somebody who at one time did a fair amount of posting to the list, I'm\nnot thrilled with the idea of all my posts being thrust willy-nilly into\nthe public domain. I'm even less thrilled with the idea that anybody would\nbe able to edit my posts. I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way. Of\ncourse, if the plan is just to summarize the discussions on the list,\nthat's different." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's been pointed out that you would need permission to copy anyone's post. \nIf you're not comfortable with your writing being posted under whatever \nlicense is in effect, then don't contribute to the wiki. If someone else \ndecides to copy your statements over, then point it out and it will be \nquickly removed." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In general it's still not clear to me what the advantages are of a wiki\nover, say, an FAQ or FAQs combined with a message board. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A FAQ is a list of Frequently Asked Questions. A wiki is a particular type of \nweb page that allows group editing from a browser. In otherwords, a FAQ is a \ndescription of the type of content. A wiki is a description of the method \nused to generate the content. They're orthogonal to one another. A FAQ can \nbe a wiki, a wiki can be a FAQ, or not. Essentially, you can think of what's \nbeing discussed as a group edited FAQ." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In fact, I would \nthink a priori that a wiki would be a poor format for dealing with Wolfe,\nabout whose work there is so little agreement. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A wiki would be an excellent choice for precisely that reason. A wiki allows \nanyone to add to the discussion. A standard web page FAQ, edited by only one \nperson, would present only one point of view. A wiki can cover as many as \nnecessary, in whatever detail you feel like covering." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But I could well be wrong; \nit might help if I could see an example of a wiki which successfully does\nwhat you're expecting from a Wolfe wiki." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'll see what I can dig up." } ] }, { "message_id": "<10343642-385F-421B-8050-65B5FF45CA13@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew King", "address": "automatthew at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-07-03T17:22:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<15616792.1151939768350.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 3, 2006, at 10:16 AM, Adam Stephanides wrote:\nAs somebody who at one time did a fair amount of posting to the \nlist, I'm not thrilled with the idea of all my posts being thrust \nwilly-nilly into the public domain. I'm even less thrilled with the \nidea that anybody would be able to edit my posts. I doubt I'm the \nonly one who feels this way. Of course, if the plan is just to \nsummarize the discussions on the list, that's different." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In this situation, perhaps a wiki should treat the Urth archives as \nan established body of secondary sources, a nascent critical apparatus." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In general it's still not clear to me what the advantages are of a \nwiki over, say, an FAQ or FAQs combined with a message board. In \nfact, I would think a priori that a wiki would be a poor format for \ndealing with Wolfe, about whose work there is so little agreement." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If we excluded controversial topics as first-class citizens, a wiki \nwould be very useful in collecting and distilling information about \nsome of the Wolfe obscurities. As a collaborative lexicon and \nconcordance alone, I would find such a wiki valuable enough to spend \nsubstantial time gardening and contributing.\n\nContentious theories could be (by consensus) relegated to articles \nwith titles like Blue as Ushas, Neighbors as Trees, Phaedria as the \nSister, Able is a Jerk, and so on.\n\nThus the first-class article on Phaedria would be eponymous, and \ncould include vital stats, page references, and quotations, as well \nas a section linking to all the second-class articles. These would, \nby their titles, be recognizable as speculation.\n\nOn the administrative side, I would prefer to have a Wolfe-wiki that \ndoes not allow anonymous editing of all articles. Wiki-spam has \nbecome ridiculously common." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370607031215y162c9f14o5247e0506d7c9c91@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-07-03T19:15:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<200607031317.40085.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Monday 03 July 2006 11:16, Adam Stephanides wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm not thrilled with the idea of all my posts being thrust willy-nilly into\nthe public domain. I'm even less thrilled with the idea that anybody\nwould be able to edit my posts." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/3/06, Daniel D Jones wrote:\nIt's been pointed out that you would need permission to copy anyone's\npost. If you're not comfortable with your writing being posted under\nwhatever license is in effect, then don't contribute to the wiki. If\nsomeone else decides to copy your statements over, then point it out\nand it will be quickly removed." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes; or, by the nature of wikis he could remove it himself.\n\nBut here's the thing. This puts the burden of monitoring the wiki --\nthe whole thing, or at least every article about a subject he's ever\nposted about -- to see if someone's quoted one of his posts, because\nif they do and he _doesn't_ protest promptly, he's lost protection of\nhis copyright -- especially given that, since the project has been\nannounced to him in this forum, he's been put on notice that his\nposts _might_ be copied to said Wiki.\n\nThis is (to my mind as someone who, on the one hand, cares a\ngreat deal about the copyright of my own work, but on the other,\nhas contributed significantly to several Wikiim on the Web) _not_\nan acceptable approach.\n\nWhen I create content for a Wiki, it is with the explicit understanding\nthat it falls under whatever sort of creative-commons policy that\nWiki has established. But Adam and I and many others (I suspect\nthis would include some very significant posters no longer active\non the forum, like Alice/Alga and Michael/Mantis) wrote our posts\nwith the understanding that the would be placed in a searchable,\nbut not editable, archive. To port them to an editable form such as\na Wiki is, I think, a violation of our rights.\n\nIf I may suggest a compromise?\n\nI would be willing for anything I have posted to this forum to be\nplaced on such a Wiki, provided that it was done so in a protected\nform, with my name clearly attached to my words, and said words\nput in place substantively unchanged (i.e., I wouldn't mind fixes to\ntypoes and grammar, nor slight edits to clarify context).\n\nIn other words: there would have to be a template for porting\ntext from the Moonmilk archives, that would _not_ permit\nediting once it was included and approved.\n\nI would be willing to hazard that most people in my position\nwould agree -- Adam, how do you feel about this proposal?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\n\"Shovels are essential to the fantasy genre.\nHowever, they are primarily used by the authors rather than the\ncharacters.\" -- Stephen R. Donaldson" } ] }, { "message_id": "<001b01c69ee7$880e2460$d33dc6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-07-03T21:27:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370607031215y162c9f14o5247e0506d7c9c91@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Adam S. wrote:\nAs somebody who at one time did a fair amount of posting to the list, I'm\nnot thrilled with the idea of all my posts being thrust willy-nilly into the\npublic domain. I'm even less thrilled with the idea that anybody would be\nable to edit my posts. I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.<<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You got that right. My feelings, exactly.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<200607040810.39119.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "from": { "name": "Daniel D Jones", "address": "ddjones at riddlemaster.org" }, "date": "2006-07-04T12:10:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<15616792.1151939768350.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Monday 03 July 2006 11:16, Adam Stephanides wrote:\nIn general it's still not clear to me what the advantages are of a wiki\nover, say, an FAQ or FAQs combined with a message board. In fact, I would\nthink a priori that a wiki would be a poor format for dealing with Wolfe,\nabout whose work there is so little agreement. But I could well be wrong;\nit might help if I could see an example of a wiki which successfully does\nwhat you're expecting from a Wolfe wiki." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's vastly different subject matter but a chain of events just led me to the \nWikipedia article for a Rock band called Tool. Take a look at that article, \nparticularly section 3, called \"Arguments about genre and categorization.\" I \ndon't see why articles on various aspects of Wolfe's work couldn't be \nsimilarly laid out.\n\nhttp://tinyurl.com/kdqjr" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Iorwerth Thomas", "address": "iorweththomas at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-07-04T13:46:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<001b01c69ee7$880e2460$d33dc6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hrrm. I assume that if one treats the mailing list as a set of secondary \nsources, and then implements the no-editing template idea, then one could \njust cite the relevant post, summarise its contents and perhaps use an \nunalterable quote when needed. This might just make the wiki into a \nnavigatable index of the mailing list, but I'm not sure that that wouldn't \nbe a bad thing to have.\n\n\n-Iorwerth" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Roy C. Lackey\" \nReply-To: The Urth Mailing List \nTo: \"Adam Stephanides\" ,\"The Urth Mailing List\" \n\nSubject: Re: (urth) Wiki\nDate: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:27:42 -0500\n\nAdam S. wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "As somebody who at one time did a fair amount of posting to the list, \nI'm\nnot thrilled with the idea of all my posts being thrust willy-nilly into \nthe\npublic domain. I'm even less thrilled with the idea that anybody would be\nable to edit my posts. I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.<<" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You got that right. My feelings, exactly.\n\n-Roy\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<28455286.1152136265886.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2006-07-05T21:51:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nI would be willing for anything I have posted to this forum to be\nplaced on such a Wiki, provided that it was done so in a protected\nform, with my name clearly attached to my words, and said words\nput in place substantively unchanged (i.e., I wouldn't mind fixes to\ntypoes and grammar, nor slight edits to clarify context).\n\nIn other words: there would have to be a template for porting\ntext from the Moonmilk archives, that would _not_ permit\nediting once it was included and approved.\n\nI would be willing to hazard that most people in my position\nwould agree -- Adam, how do you feel about this proposal?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That would certainly meet my objections as far as editing is concerned. There's still the question of copyright. I'm not aware of the ins and outs of various licenses, but I presume there could be some general provision that any copyrighted material remains the property of its owner(s). (It seems to me you would need something like this anyway.)\n\nBut while thinking about this, I realized that I'm not sure what is being proposed. Are we talking about importing the archives wholesale? Or simply quoting portions of messages? Or both?\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5762207.1152281905940.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2006-07-07T14:18:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<28455286.1152136265886.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Daniel D Jones wrote:\nOn Monday 03 July 2006 11:16, Adam Stephanides wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "In general it's still not clear to me what the advantages are of a wiki\nover, say, an FAQ or FAQs combined with a message board. In fact, I would\nthink a priori that a wiki would be a poor format for dealing with Wolfe,\nabout whose work there is so little agreement. But I could well be wrong;\nit might help if I could see an example of a wiki which successfully does\nwhat you're expecting from a Wolfe wiki." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's vastly different subject matter but a chain of events just led me to the \nWikipedia article for a Rock band called Tool. Take a look at that article, \nparticularly section 3, called \"Arguments about genre and categorization.\" I \ndon't see why articles on various aspects of Wolfe's work couldn't be \nsimilarly laid out.\n\nhttp://tinyurl.com/kdqjr" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I wasn't doubting that articles could be written on controversial issues. Rather, I was concerned that such articles might either devolve into \"editing wars\" or become long and shapeless as everyone tries to add their own viewpoint. And while the article you cite seems to have avoided these problems, I think the danger would be greater for an article about, say, the \"Green is Urth\" theory (to mention an debate in which I was personally involved).\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<348C77A3-8A73-465D-8E6A-6F7990DB5E2E@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Transentient", "address": "transentient at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-07-07T14:45:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wiki", "in_reply_to": "<5762207.1152281905940.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 7, 2006, at 10:18 AM, Adam Stephanides wrote:\nDaniel D Jones wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Monday 03 July 2006 11:16, Adam Stephanides wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "In general it's still not clear to me what the advantages are of \na wiki\nover, say, an FAQ or FAQs combined with a message board. In fact, \nI would\nthink a priori that a wiki would be a poor format for dealing \nwith Wolfe,\nabout whose work there is so little agreement. But I could well \nbe wrong;\nit might help if I could see an example of a wiki which \nsuccessfully does\nwhat you're expecting from a Wolfe wiki." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "It's vastly different subject matter but a chain of events just \nled me to the\nWikipedia article for a Rock band called Tool. Take a look at \nthat article,\nparticularly section 3, called \"Arguments about genre and \ncategorization.\" I\ndon't see why articles on various aspects of Wolfe's work couldn't be\nsimilarly laid out.\n\nhttp://tinyurl.com/kdqjr" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wasn't doubting that articles could be written on controversial \nissues. Rather, I was concerned that such articles might either \ndevolve into \"editing wars\" or become long and shapeless as \neveryone tries to add their own viewpoint. And while the article \nyou cite seems to have avoided these problems, I think the danger \nwould be greater for an article about, say, the \"Green is Urth\" \ntheory (to mention an debate in which I was personally involved)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wikipedia has for the most part survived such conflicts. I think the \nway it does this is by sticking to policies that require authors to \nkeep their viewpoints neutral, and forgo the use of Wikipedia for \noriginal research.\n\nIf the Wolfe wiki were developed around these kinds of principals I \nthink it could work. It wouldn't conflict with this list, which is \nmore of a place for people's own opinions and original research. \nThere shouldn't be any issues with intellectual property being \nedited, because authors should not post things that aren't sort of \nestablished. If it is an opinion of some group, but isn't accepted as \nfact, it shouldn't be posted as such.\n\nI think if you lay down some ground rules for what an article in your \nwiki should or should not be, then users will respect them." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Craig Christensen", "address": "ruffcorn at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-07-26T13:10:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon", "in_reply_to": "<20060627201901.88649.qmail@web32415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "To those who have read their ARC Soldier of Sidon - did Wolfe recapture the\ntone of the earlier Soldier stories? Could someone read them one after the\nother without noticing a shift in style with the third book?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060726202139.20538.qmail@web35913.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "stilskin", "address": "acronus at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-07-26T20:21:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I felt the style of the third book was more in keeping\nwith the last section of book 2 than with what\npreceded that section." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Craig Christensen wrote:\nTo those who have read their ARC Soldier of Sidon -\ndid Wolfe recapture the\ntone of the earlier Soldier stories? Could someone\nread them one after the\nother without noticing a shift in style with the\nthird book?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1153974657.12388.266974086@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "from": { "name": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus", "address": "lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm" }, "date": "2006-07-27T04:30:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon", "in_reply_to": "<20060726202139.20538.qmail@web35913.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "To those who have read their ARC Soldier of Sidon -\ndid Wolfe recapture the\ntone of the earlier Soldier stories? Could someone\nread them one after the\nother without noticing a shift in style with the\nthird book?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Delurking briefly.\n\nImo there are substantial differences in style between the first two\nSoldier books and the third.\n\nLatro, in Mist and Arete, almost seems to be channeling Severian when he\nwrites. The sentences are long and complex, with lots of thoughts and\nfollowup observations set off by semi-colons, and there are many lyrical\ntouches throughout both books. \n\nLatro, in Sidon, writes in much leaner, declarative, sentences with very\nfew adjectives, and the book seems closer in style to The Wizard Knight\nthan anything else in the Wolfe canon.\n\nThat being said, however, I think Sidon is the most accessible of the\nthree works. It's certainly the shortest and can be read in a long\nevening, and someone who hasn't sampled the series yet might even start\nwith it, then go back and read the first two installments.\n\nRex" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Rex Lycanthrosaurus\n lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n-- \nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software\n or over the web" } ] } ] }