Subject: (urth) Agia/Hypogeon/Inire

From: b sharp <bsharporflat at hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:53:04 +0000

Roy writes:

>Jeff is right about the man-apes of the treasure mine being the autarch's 
>to
>command -- see the first page of chapter XXXI in CITADEL.

Cyriaca, who spent long hours with her special, very knowledgable uncle, 
forces us to question whether Father Inire is the humble vizier and servant 
of the autarchs.  I think I'm not the only one to consider that the chain of 
autarchs might be puppets to the (nearly) immortal Inire.  The autarchs 
might command the man-apes but I don't think they created them.  And the 
disturbed, subterranean behemoth?  We know that Abaia is beneath the ocean 
but he is not the only megatherian.

I see little evidence that Father Inire is working FOR the New Sun...in 1000 
years only three autarchs make the trip to Yesod? And quite a gap in the 
middle of that millenium...There is something special about the three who 
went.  Possibly a streak of independence from Inire.  Why does the old 
autarch, Appian, have his own set of mirrors?  The parable of Ymar shows he 
is not so easily swayed by women and wealth (like the corrupt autarch in the 
play).  Rather he, (like Severian) is happy to follow a dog....

Roy asks:

>Am I reading you right? Are you seriously suggesting that Inire was working 
>to prevent the coming of the New Sun?

I am currently finding it fruitful to interpret almost everything in the 
BotNS within a framework which describes the rise of Christianity in 
replacement of earlier pagan religions (in the Western world anyway).  To 
answer Roy's question I would ask, "were Apollo and Jupiter (and Ra and Anu, 
etc.) working to prevent the coming of Jesus?"

To answer I would say no, these pagan gods were just pursuing their own 
goals which might be beyond human understanding.  But the followers of these 
gods were definitely fighting the rise of Christianity. I think true 
believing Christians would assert that God allowed these pagan religions to 
flourish as part of the preparation of the Earth for Christ.

So too I think Father Inire, the master manipulator, has himself been 
manipulated by higher powers to help prepare Urth for the coming of the New 
Sun.  Like the Greek Gods I think Inire (et al.) is near-immortal, 
animal-associated and shape-shifting (in the way of Tzadkiel). Like the 
Greek gods he amuses himself with dalliances with human women and enjoys 
getting involved in human wars.  Appian seem to cynically realize they are 
being manipulated by the gods for fun, asking Severian if he'd like to 
switch armies...or maybe have both...

If we wonder what happened to Father Inire and the others of his kind on 
Urth, I think it was the same fate that befell the pagan gods who were swept 
away by Christianity; the same fate of all gods who find themselves without 
any believers.

-bsharp

---

From: HHR <hubert.rogers at ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:48:56 +0000

I think I read on the mailing list a while back that some people had  
already got their advance copies of Sidon to review. If so, then can  
we have any general impressions please :-) (spoiler free of course)  
What's the front cover like?

In Mist and Arete I always hoped Latro would venture beyond Greece  
and Thrace. In an IRC interview Wolfe said that the 3rd book was set  
in Persian occupied Egypt, which is bound to be fascinating, though I  
sure hope that Latro travels to the Levant at least. Any of Sidon/ 
Tyre/Byblos/Gaza/Jerusalem would be great to visit.

Anticipation!!!!

---
HHR

---

From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:59:55 +0000

ARCs usually have plain paper covers with only some type giving the
publishing information and noting that it is an ARC.

On 7/24/06, HHR <hubert.rogers at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>

-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant
-----
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer
"Shovels are essential to the fantasy genre.
However, they are primarily used by the authors rather than the
characters." -- Stephen R. Donaldson

---

From: don doggett <kingwukong at yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:51:41 +0000

> publishing information and noting that it is an ARC.

This is indeed what my copy is like though the
interior (minus a few typos) seems finished. The
chapter heads are illustrated like the Wizard Knight.
It's as good as the other two, and that's all I'll
say.

Don

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com