# Saint names *The Urth list — 3 messages, 2 voices, 27 Jul 2006* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### b sharp *27 Jul 2006, 12:29* Dan'l writes: > I suspect that he _does_ [have a purpose in his choice of saint names] but > that we haven't >worked out the relationships yet. I'm certainly not > familiar enough with the ancient saints to do this. Using the internet I've been able to explore the lives of some saints. There are a lot of convenient sites available. This one provides a thumbnail sketch of each- http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/patron02.htm- and there are sites which go into greater detail for each saint. I've perused the main characters in BotNS and the only clear (to me) parallels I've found are that Saint Dorcas was resurrected and Saint Thecla wore men's clothing to avoid being molested as she travelled with Paul. I am interested in any further connections people can find. (I'll note that, like Dorcas in BotNS, Saint Thecla sat in a window, but maybe that is an incidental connection? you could drive yourself crazy with those) Since Gene Wolfe wrote BotNS pre-Internet, I have to imagine he wrote thinking people would have only The Catholic Encyclopedia and other inconvenient sources to interpret his work and didn't make the references hopelessly obscure and impenetrable. What purpose in that? -bsharp --- ### b sharp *27 Jul 2006, 13:49 · follows b sharp* Sorry, the link in the previous post got an extra hyphen in it, rendering it worthless. This link should work: http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/patron02.htm -bsharp --- ### Dan'l Danehy-Oakes *27 Jul 2006, 17:04 · in reply to b sharp* > On 7/27/06, b sharp wrote: > Dan'l writes: >> I suspect that he _does_ [have a purpose in his choice of saint names] but >> that we haven't >worked out the relationships yet. I'm certainly not >> familiar enough with the ancient saints to do this. > Using the internet I've been able to explore the lives of some saints. There > are a lot of convenient sites available. This one provides a thumbnail > sketch of each- > http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/patron02.htm- and there are sites > which go into greater detail for each saint. H'mmm. I see some interesting things. One St. Severian was a martyr whose flesh was torn off his body with iron rakes - i.e., tortured to death. He was a Roman Senator, which may be relevant to Severian's governmental connections. (Interestingly, another St. Severian was also tortured to death, but he was canonized well after GW wrote tBotNS.) Palaemon and Gurloes were monastic leaders. (Hermit community in the case of P.) Malrubius was a monastic, founder of a church, and a martyr. Vodalus was a missionary and a miracle-worker, and, interestingly, not a miracle-worker. Agia and Agilus, interestingly, are both French. I find myself wondering if Wolfe used any kind of pattern regarding where the various saints came from... > Since Gene Wolfe wrote BotNS pre-Internet, I have to imagine he wrote > thinking people would have only The Catholic Encyclopedia and other > inconvenient sources to interpret his work and didn't make the references > hopelessly obscure and impenetrable. What purpose in that? I don't think he particularly expected people to "get" this stuff: but he's writing, among other things, very clearly in the shadow of the great High Modernists, Joyce and Proust. Proust provides the fascination with memory; Joyce, the joy in putting in obscure details and patterns for his own amusement. The Joycean play isn't intended for us so much as for himself. At least, that's how I see it. ``` Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant ----- http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer "Shovels are essential to the fantasy genre. However, they are primarily used by the authors rather than the characters." -- Stephen R. Donaldson ``` ---