{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4679", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4679, "subject": "Urth geochronology", "messages": 16, "voices": 9, "first": "2006-07-30T23:58:36+00:00", "last": "2006-10-05T00:11:58+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeffrey Lefstin", "address": "jeff.lefstin at stanfordalumni.org" }, "date": "2006-07-30T23:58:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth geochronology", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "More ambiguous. At one point he says Urth is \"perhaps a million years \nin\nour future.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If we were really trying to deduce the age of Urth from the text, it \nmust be older than that. At several points Severian mentions the lack \nof volcanic activity on Urth and the solidification of the Urth's \ninterior. I'm not a geologist, but a few million years, or even a few \ntens of millions of years, isn't going to cut it if we assume that \nvolcanic activity has ceased due to natural cooling and decay.\n\nBut since Wolfe is not a hard SF writer I wouldn't make too much of it." } ] }, { "message_id": "<236096EF-D5C2-4412-B68A-6605E197D850@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Transentient", "address": "transentient at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-07-31T02:21:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) just reading _Book of Days_", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Okay I'm rapidly running out of easily-obtainable Wolfe books to \nread. I've recently started on _Castle of Days,_ and I am ready to \nproclaim the stories in _Gene Wolfe's Book of Days_ to be, IMO, \nWolfe's best short fiction.\n\nI'm particularly fond of \"How I Lost the Second World War and Helped \nTurn Back the German Invasion,\" I think it is officially my very \nfavorite Wolfe short story. It's just a perfect little piece of \nscience fiction - it is alternate history, has a clever ending, a \nterribly fun exposition of a logical game, contains the real world \ninside of it, as a board game, and, I am convinced, that business \nwith the transistor is meant to explain how the real world relates to \nfiction, though which side of the transistor represents which, I am \nnot sure.\n\nAnd \"Forlesen,\" wow, I haven't caught up on all of the more \nenlightened discussions to take place on this list about that one \nyet, but to me it seems like he might actually be talking about \nGnosticism in there. The day that Forlesen leads is a life in the \nimperfect universe created by the Demiurge, who is either Mr Frick or \nthe man in the black suit who asks him which Explainer he wants. \nHmm...perhaps Forlesen is Jesus or the actual Christian God.\n\nRight let me go catch up on those past posts before I waste too much \nbandwidth speculating..." } ] }, { "message_id": "<200607310740.31549.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "from": { "name": "Daniel D Jones", "address": "ddjones at riddlemaster.org" }, "date": "2006-07-31T11:40:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) just reading _Book of Days_", "in_reply_to": "<236096EF-D5C2-4412-B68A-6605E197D850@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sunday 30 July 2006 22:21, Transentient wrote:\nOkay I'm rapidly running out of easily-obtainable Wolfe books to\nread. I've recently started on _Castle of Days,_ and I am ready to\nproclaim the stories in _Gene Wolfe's Book of Days_ to be, IMO,\nWolfe's best short fiction." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've just grabbed a whole handful of his other (ie non-solar) stuff. 5thHoC \nwas incredible, everything I'd expect from Wolfe. _The Island of Doctor \nDeath..._ was equally impressive. (Other than \"La Befana,\" which I though to \nbe a bit of a gimmick story.) \"Innocents Abroad,\" however, has been ...well, \nunderwhelming. It isn't _bad_ but the stories don't seem to have the depth \nand impact that I expect from Wolfe.\n\nI haven't got my hands on _Book of Days_ yet, but I will soon." } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060731144419.88812.qmail@web51108.mail.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Macronaut", "address": "macronaut at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-07-31T14:44:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth geochronology", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A good point but, as the cooling sun teaches, we\ncannot discount action by intelligent beings as the\ncause of apparently natural phenomena. Given\nmankind's other advanced technology, it's more than\npossible that men engaged in some large-scale activity\nwhich, intentionally or not, resulted in the cooling\nat an accelerated rate.\n\nMacronaut" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "--- Jeffrey Lefstin \nwrote:\nJeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "More ambiguous. At one point he says Urth is\n\"perhaps a million years \nin\nour future.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If we were really trying to deduce the age of Urth\nfrom the text, it \nmust be older than that. At several points Severian\nmentions the lack \nof volcanic activity on Urth and the solidification\nof the Urth's \ninterior. I'm not a geologist, but a few million\nyears, or even a few \ntens of millions of years, isn't going to cut it if\nwe assume that \nvolcanic activity has ceased due to natural cooling\nand decay.\n\nBut since Wolfe is not a hard SF writer I wouldn't\nmake too much of it.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44CEC44B.6020906@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2006-08-01T03:02:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth geochronology", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Jeffrey Lefstin wrote:\nJeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "More ambiguous. At one point he says Urth is \"perhaps a million years \nin\nour future.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If we were really trying to deduce the age of Urth from the text, it \nmust be older than that. At several points Severian mentions the lack \nof volcanic activity on Urth and the solidification of the Urth's \ninterior. I'm not a geologist, but a few million years, or even a few \ntens of millions of years, isn't going to cut it if we assume that \nvolcanic activity has ceased due to natural cooling and decay." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "We can't assume it's natural because one of the Great Beasts (Erebus) \nlives in/on/as a volcanic mountain itself. They sap energy from Urth the \nsame way the black beans/worms sap the old sun. This, combined with the \n19th century refrigeration model gleaned from old books that are the \nsource of other similar misteachings, more than explain the apparent \ndeviation from 1981 geology." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But since Wolfe is not a hard SF writer I wouldn't make too much of it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Gene Wolfe is a very hard SF writer when he wishes to be; in \"How I Lost \nthe Second World War and Helped Turn Back the German Invasion\" , victory \nin a motor race hinges on the quantum mechanical workings of the \ntransistor." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060801054705.36394.qmail@web32401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "don doggett", "address": "kingwukong at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-08-01T05:47:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "<44CEC44B.6020906@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi all,\n\nI've just finished reading Blood Meridian by Cormac\nMcCarthy and I wish to express that it is one of the\nfinest modern novels I have ever read, neck and neck\nw/ BotNS and Tim Obrien's The Things They Carried. It\nis also quite possibly the most violent literary book\never written. Incredible.\n\nDon" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maru dubshinki", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-08-03T00:19:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "<20060801054705.36394.qmail@web32401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 8/1/06, don doggett wrote:\nHi all,\n\nI've just finished reading Blood Meridian by Cormac\nMcCarthy and I wish to express that it is one of the\nfinest modern novels I have ever read, neck and neck\nw/ BotNS and Tim Obrien's The Things They Carried. It\nis also quite possibly the most violent literary book\never written. Incredible.\n\nDon" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have to ask, why you think it is so marvelous? I read that just last\nyear, and I remember thinking in incomprehension that the judge was a\nmarvelous character, but that the rest seemed pretty pointless and\ngratuitious (Harold Bloom's criticism notwithstanding).\n\n~maru" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060803174048.29905.qmail@web32402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "don doggett", "address": "kingwukong at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-08-03T17:40:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "--- maru dubshinki wrote: \n\n[regarding Blood Meridian]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I have to ask, why you think it is so marvelous? I\nread that just last\nyear, and I remember thinking in incomprehension\nthat the judge was a\nmarvelous character, but that the rest seemed pretty\npointless and\ngratuitious (Harold Bloom's criticism\nnotwithstanding)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have to admit I haven't read Bloom's criticism. The\nbook was recommended to me by a couple of friends. I\nwould agree that much of the goings on in it are\npointless and gratuitous but I would argue that that\nis precisely the point of the book. At it's base level\nthe book is about the violent convulsions that created\nthe westward expansion in this country. And having\nlived in the southwest desert for the past two years,\nI have to say it is still one of the most casually\nviolent (in attitude if not physicality) places I have\never resided. But for me, this aspect of the book on\nits own would make a pretty pedantic read. It's the\nbiblical rhetoric and the elevation of every action to\nthe level of myth that sets this book apart for me. In\nmy mind the scalp hunters are no different from the\nArgonauts (read Graves' Hercules my Shipmate or John\nGardner's Jason and Medea) or the Achaeans at the\nwalls of Troy, violent, unreflective men whose\nunchecked impulses are raised by poetry to epic\nsignificance. It's a western myth in an old world down\nand dirty blood sacrifice kind of way that unsettled\nme in my gut. I feel there's even more to it,\nespecially in the interplay between the Kid and Judge\nHolden, but I'm not far enough away from my reading to\nthink about it clearly.\nBut that's my two cents. I think it's a brilliant book\nbut I know plenty of people who couldn't finish it\nbecause of the violence or who thought it was a\npretentious waste of time. To each their own.\n\nregards\nDon" } ] }, { "message_id": "<200609231055.59782.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "from": { "name": "Daniel D Jones", "address": "ddjones at riddlemaster.org" }, "date": "2006-09-23T14:55:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Meridian - still utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday 02 August 2006 20:19, maru dubshinki wrote:\nOn 8/1/06, don doggett wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hi all,\n\nI've just finished reading Blood Meridian by Cormac\nMcCarthy and I wish to express that it is one of the\nfinest modern novels I have ever read, neck and neck\nw/ BotNS and Tim Obrien's The Things They Carried. It\nis also quite possibly the most violent literary book\never written. Incredible.\n\nDon" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I have to ask, why you think it is so marvelous? I read that just last\nyear, and I remember thinking in incomprehension that the judge was a\nmarvelous character, but that the rest seemed pretty pointless and\ngratuitious (Harold Bloom's criticism notwithstanding)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Still off topic but these comments intrigued me, and so I purchased the book. \nFirst, I have to agree that it's an excellent novel. I thought the kid was \nas interesting as the Judge, albeit in a different manner. You do realize \nthat the book, while fiction, is heavily based on real events? Many of the \ncharacters, including Glanton and Judge Holden, were real people. If you're \nnot already conversant with it, you might find the following interesting:\n\nhttp://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/HNS/Scalpin/heads.html\n\nIn case the URL gets distorted by email:\n\nhttp://tinyurl.com/gweur\n\nIt may make the violence less gratuitious to realize that it's reasonably \nhistorically accurate.\n\nSecond, the volume I picked up included Harold Bloom's introduction. After \nreading it, I'm tempted to smack him upside the head with Stephen King's \nlatest novel. Wouldn't you assume that a literary critic would realize that \nan introduction is read BEFORE you read the book, and that giving away the \nending of the work in question is probably not a good idea? If anyone else \ndecides to read the book, you might want to read Bloom's intro as an \nafterward." } ] }, { "message_id": "<461CD892-ECEF-488F-AAA5-8114E85825EE@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-09-23T21:57:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Meridian - still utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "<200609231055.59782.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I was in a bookstore last night and actually considered buying Blood \nMeridian or All the Pretty Horses. I read No Country for Old Men \nearlier this year and thought it was great, so I figured I should try \nanother one of his books. So bleak, yet so persuasive.\n\nBy the way, I understand that McCarthy has a new book, The Road, \ncoming out very shortly. It's about a father and son trying to \nsurvive in a post-apocalyptic world. Advance word on the book seems \ngood, though I don't think it's getting the same praise as Blood \nMeridian or the Border Trilogy (All the Pretty Horses, The Crossing, \nand Cities on the Plain).\n\n-Matt" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sep 23, 2006, at 10:55 AM, Daniel D Jones wrote:\nOn Wednesday 02 August 2006 20:19, maru dubshinki wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 8/1/06, don doggett wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Hi all,\n\nI've just finished reading Blood Meridian by Cormac\nMcCarthy and I wish to express that it is one of the\nfinest modern novels I have ever read, neck and neck\nw/ BotNS and Tim Obrien's The Things They Carried. It\nis also quite possibly the most violent literary book\never written. Incredible.\n\nDon" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I have to ask, why you think it is so marvelous? I read that just \nlast\nyear, and I remember thinking in incomprehension that the judge was a\nmarvelous character, but that the rest seemed pretty pointless and\ngratuitious (Harold Bloom's criticism notwithstanding)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Still off topic but these comments intrigued me, and so I purchased \nthe book.\nFirst, I have to agree that it's an excellent novel. I thought the \nkid was\nas interesting as the Judge, albeit in a different manner. You do \nrealize\nthat the book, while fiction, is heavily based on real events? \nMany of the\ncharacters, including Glanton and Judge Holden, were real people. \nIf you're\nnot already conversant with it, you might find the following \ninteresting:\n\nhttp://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/HNS/Scalpin/heads.html\n\nIn case the URL gets distorted by email:\n\nhttp://tinyurl.com/gweur\n\nIt may make the violence less gratuitious to realize that it's \nreasonably\nhistorically accurate.\n\nSecond, the volume I picked up included Harold Bloom's \nintroduction. After\nreading it, I'm tempted to smack him upside the head with Stephen \nKing's\nlatest novel. Wouldn't you assume that a literary critic would \nrealize that\nan introduction is read BEFORE you read the book, and that giving \naway the\nending of the work in question is probably not a good idea? If \nanyone else\ndecides to read the book, you might want to read Bloom's intro as an\nafterward.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20061001040149.8404.qmail@web32408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "don doggett", "address": "kingwukong at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-10-01T04:01:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Meridian - still utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "<461CD892-ECEF-488F-AAA5-8114E85825EE@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Matthew Keeley wrote:\nBy the way, I understand that McCarthy has a new\nbook, The Road, \ncoming out very shortly. It's about a father and son\ntrying to \nsurvive in a post-apocalyptic world. Advance word on\nthe book seems \ngood, though I don't think it's getting the same\npraise as Blood \nMeridian or the Border Trilogy (All the Pretty\nHorses, The Crossing, \nand Cities on the Plain)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm a little less than halfway through it (It's a\nquick read) so I'll reserve final judgement, but it's\npretty f'd up. I mean that as a compliment, though.\nHumanity is winding down to zero and it's not going\ngracefully. No postman, no Mad Max, no Mother Abigail\nto set shit straight, not even a Vic and Blood (though\nI caught a hint of a reference). The narrative choices\nthat McCarthy's made are making this book a very\ninteresting read. I'd say I'm looking forward to the\nend, but the truth is I'm kind of dreading it; another\ncompiment to the novel's power.\n\nDon" } ] }, { "message_id": "<200610010857.12352.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "from": { "name": "Daniel D Jones", "address": "ddjones at riddlemaster.org" }, "date": "2006-10-01T12:57:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Meridian - still utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "<200609231055.59782.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Saturday 23 September 2006 10:55, Daniel D Jones wrote:\nSecond, the volume I picked up included Harold Bloom's introduction. After\nreading it, I'm tempted to smack him upside the head with Stephen King's\nlatest novel. Wouldn't you assume that a literary critic would realize\nthat an introduction is read BEFORE you read the book, and that giving away\nthe ending of the work in question is probably not a good idea? If anyone\nelse decides to read the book, you might want to read Bloom's intro as an\nafterward." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just to set the record straight, I've found out that Bloom did not write the \nessay as an introduction to the book. It's part of a longer work which \ndiscusses several novels. The blame for selecting it as an introduction \nbelongs to some nameless editor, not to Bloom." } ] }, { "message_id": "<51AF7BE5-EEB8-4A74-92DF-022296726825@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Transentient", "address": "transentient at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-10-01T13:23:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Meridian - still utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "<200610010857.12352.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I also read this last month because it was mentioned on this list. I \nreally thought it was excellent.\n\nWhat I don't understand, though, is why this book is considered part \nof the \"litchrature\" genre and not \"gorefest cowboy horror\" genre. My \ncopy of the book had a tagline or quote on the front cover that was \nlike, \"A classic American novel of regeneration through violence,\" \nand my response to that is: wtf does that even mean?\n\nIt is interesting how, if a writer can get some \"official literature\" \nstatus early in their careers, whenever they choose to write \nsomething that is fantasy, horror, mystery, or even blatant sf (and \nsorry I can't think of any examples) the literary press will make \nexcuses and struggle to point out that it isn't really genre, because \nit is written by a \"serious\" writer and not a \"genre\" writer.\n\nBut I haven't seen much crossover the other direction. " } ] }, { "message_id": "<20061001143239.7908.qmail@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "don doggett", "address": "kingwukong at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-10-01T14:32:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Meridian - still utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "<51AF7BE5-EEB8-4A74-92DF-022296726825@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Transentient wrote: \nI also read this last month because it was mentioned on this list. I \nreally thought it was excellent.\n\nWhat I don't understand, though, is why this book is considered part \nof the \"litchrature\" genre and not \"gorefest cowboy horror\" genre. My \ncopy of the book had a tagline or quote on the front cover that was \nlike, \"A classic American novel of regeneration through violence,\" \nand my response to that is: wtf does that even mean?\n\nIt doesn't mean anything to me, but Michael Herr wrote it (he wrote Martin Sheen's monologues in Apocalypse Now, and the very excellent book Dispatches) so you're sposed to look at it and say, oh, Michael Herr digs it so I'll buy it too. I hate those things myself. They ruin a perfectly nice book cover. On a more Wolfe related but still OT note, Neil Gaiman has just published a new book of short stories called Fragile Things. I have it and haven't read it but I think he is far and away at his best in the short story medium so I'm pretty excited about it.\n\nDon\n\n \t\t" } ] }, { "message_id": "<2604BCE1171C434C912C75ED42F419F0012CB98E@dragonfly.middlebury.edu>", "from": { "name": "Alexander, Bryan", "address": "balexan at middlebury.edu" }, "date": "2006-10-04T16:29:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Meridian - still utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "<20061001143239.7908.qmail@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Why not horror... because it's a historical novel, an antiwestern, primarily. The kid travels right from the old frontier through to California, and the novel touches on all sorts of western tropes along the way: naturalism, the imposition of law, the cult of the outlaw, Mexico, etc. \nIt is horrific, I'll grant you that. It felt like a very violent novel from the start.\n\n\"regeneration through violence\" is Richard Slotkin's classic formula about American frontier lit. Heroes head out, confront horror, are redeemed by their violent response.\nWhat's weird is that _Blood Meridian_ isn't redemptive at all. Had the blurber actually finished it? No spoiler here, but cf the conclusion of Melville's _Confidence-Man_.\n\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: urth-bounces at lists.urth.net on behalf of don doggett\nSent: Sun 10/1/2006 10:32 AM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List\nSubject: Re: (urth) Blood Meridian - still utterly and completely off topic\n \n\n\nTransentient wrote: \nI also read this last month because it was mentioned on this list. I \nreally thought it was excellent.\n\nWhat I don't understand, though, is why this book is considered part \nof the \"litchrature\" genre and not \"gorefest cowboy horror\" genre. My \ncopy of the book had a tagline or quote on the front cover that was \nlike, \"A classic American novel of regeneration through violence,\" \nand my response to that is: wtf does that even mean?\n\nIt doesn't mean anything to me, but Michael Herr wrote it (he wrote Martin Sheen's monologues in Apocalypse Now, and the very excellent book Dispatches) so you're sposed to look at it and say, oh, Michael Herr digs it so I'll buy it too. I hate those things myself. They ruin a perfectly nice book cover. On a more Wolfe related but still OT note, Neil Gaiman has just published a new book of short stories called Fragile Things. I have it and haven't read it but I think he is far and away at his best in the short story medium so I'm pretty excited about it.\n\nDon\n\n \t\t" } ] }, { "message_id": "<200610042011.59138.ddjones@riddlemaster.org>", "from": { "name": "Daniel D Jones", "address": "ddjones at riddlemaster.org" }, "date": "2006-10-05T00:11:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Meridian - still utterly and completely off topic", "in_reply_to": "<2604BCE1171C434C912C75ED42F419F0012CB98E@dragonfly.middlebury.edu>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday 04 October 2006 12:29, Alexander, Bryan wrote:\nWhy not horror... because it's a historical novel, an antiwestern,\nprimarily. The kid travels right from the old frontier through to\nCalifornia, and the novel touches on all sorts of western tropes along the\nway: naturalism, the imposition of law, the cult of the outlaw, Mexico,\netc. It is horrific, I'll grant you that. It felt like a very violent\nnovel from the start.\n\n\"regeneration through violence\" is Richard Slotkin's classic formula about\nAmerican frontier lit. Heroes head out, confront horror, are redeemed by\ntheir violent response. What's weird is that _Blood Meridian_ isn't\nredemptive at all. Had the blurber actually finished it? No spoiler here,\nbut cf the conclusion of Melville's _Confidence-Man_." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You don't think that the kid was redeemed by his experiences? What does the \nJudge mean when he tells the kid he failed him? Why do they part ways as \nthey do? Why does the book end as it does?" } ] } ] }