{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4690",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4690,
    "subject": "Megatherian family tree",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2006-08-15T18:29:05+00:00",
    "last": "2006-08-15T18:29:05+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<BAY103-F15A2875D16675F1ABDF882D74F0@phx.gbl>",
      "from": {
        "name": "b sharp",
        "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2006-08-15T18:29:05+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Megatherian family tree",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Maybe that's a poor choice of name for this post since it is pretty hard to \ndraw a family tree for very vaguely described creatures who can reproduce \nsexually or asexually.  I mention sexual reproduction because the undines \n(in Severian's dream) say they are waiting to grow big enough to mate with \nAbaia.\n\nI mention asexual reproduction because I roundly think Urth of the New Sun \nwas meant to flesh out the underdeveloped ideas in BotNS more than introduce \nnew ideas. So when Tzadkiel is shown to break off a finger which reshapes \nitself into a human sized being, I think we are meant to understand the same \nthing has happened on Urth with large non-human creatures.  Since we are \nalso shown a tinker-bell sized Tzadkiel, I wonder if the giant Tzadkiels \n(male and female) that Severian meets are actually the largest versions.  \nHow big was the Tzadkiel Severian sees floating in space in the Autarch's \nmirror book?  Mountain sized? Planet sized? Stellar sized?\n\nAnyway, from the skewed Theseus story,  Severian recognizes the Naviscaput, \nwith its ship-headed giant, as referring to Abaia.  We do hear that this \ngiant ogre raped a female being named Night.  Elsewhere we find that Night \nis represented as pale skinned with a dark sable cloak. Also we are told \nthat she later forgave the rape or decided it wasn't such a bad thing.  I \nthink Night is considered to be sister to the Naviscaput but I can't find \nthat reference again.\n\nWe aren't told much about Erebus, the other megatherian most often mentioned \nin the text after Abaia.  Erebus was supposed to have had some sort of tiff \nwith Abaia and retreated to the Antarctic ice with a retinue of pale \nwarriors.  Later there was a reconciliation and joining of forces of Abaia \nand Erebus. I think this reconcilliation is represented by the the strange \nsight reported by Maxellindis' Uncle:  a huge ship on Gyoll carrying a crew \nof giant pale warriors.\n\nThe pale skinned warriors and reconciliation make me think that Erebus \n(despite Erebus being referred to as \"he\" a couple times) is the Night found \nin the Naviscaput story.  The fact that Erebus is the Greek god of Darkness \ncould be seen as supporting evidence.  I think, somehow from these two, \nErebus and Abaia, other pagan god/monster/megatherian creatures were \nproduced on Urth such as Arioch, Scylla, Amphisboena, Ourobouros and also \nthe more human proportioned creatures like Juturna and Typhon and (I think) \nFather Inire.\n\nAside from knowing he is a cacogen, I throw Father Inire in the mix because \nin the Naviscaput story we find a watery labyrinthine entranceway to his \nlair.  Labyrinths always suggest Father Inire to me so I see a connection \nbetween him and Abaia.  And through Father Inire I see the connection \nbetween Severian's family tree and the family of these alien, incestuous \npagan god/megatherian creatures.\n\nThat's it for my theory on Severian's family! I hope it was interesting in \nat least some way.\n\n-bsharp"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}