{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/470", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 470, "subject": "Digest urth.v009.n002", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1998-04-03T10:50:22+00:00", "last": "1998-04-04T22:10:51+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tony Ellis", "address": "tony.ellis at futurenet.co.uk" }, "date": "1998-04-03T10:50:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v009.n002", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n03/04/98\n 10:12\n RE>Digest urth.v009.n002" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Rostrum wrote:\n...Didn't\nsomeone report (somewhere in the archives) that Wolfe has said that no\none was murdered by Alden Weer in _Peace_? " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "In the online People interview, Wolfe was asked if Weer killed\nmany of the other characters in the book and responded \"Let\nme think about that... no. I don't think so, no.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'd always understood that quote to mean that, Weer did not kill \"many\" of\nthe other characters of the book, not that he didn't kill anyone. I doubt\nWolfe would have had to think about it if Weer was entirely innocent, and\nit seems pretty plain that he at least (accidentally) killed the boy at\nthe top of the stairs." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Absolutely, yes. I was offering that quote because it related to the\nno-one-was-murdered-by-Weer question, not because I thought it\nconfirmed it! Sorry if that wasn't clear. I think it's beyond \nquestion that Weer kills the boy, but I've yet to be convinced\nthat he kills anyone else..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Pedro Jorge wrote:\n...Then, the narrator is Jean-5? and his brother is\nJean 6? (I can't remember if the brother is younger or older)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "First time in here. Just to say that my idea was always that the brother\nwas not a clone but rather a control in the experiment. But, who is\nNumber 1?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There seem to have been several posts along these lines,\nincluding Rostrum's ingenious \"Jeannine =3D Jean 9\", but surely\nthe narrator is number 5 because he is the 5th head of \nCerberus, which is to say, of his family. As his father says,\nif he was counting clones the narrator would be Number\nFifty, not five.\n\nThis is why Aunt Jeannine initially says \"That number's\neither far too low or too high.\" It's too low because there are\nmore like 50 clones, and it _seems_ too high to her\nbecause she doesn't know about David. But if you count\nher, the narrator, his \"father\", Mr Million and David you get\nfive.\n\nAs for who is Number One, I'm not sure that question applies,\nbut I suppose you could say it's the father, as he's the current\nmaster of the brood." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Jorge Romero", "address": "bempjr at redkbs.com" }, "date": "1998-04-04T22:10:51+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v009.n002", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There seem to have been several posts along these lines,\nincluding Rostrum's ingenious \"Jeannine = Jean 9\", but surely\nthe narrator is number 5 because he is the 5th head of\nCerberus, which is to say, of his family. As his father says,\nif he was counting clones the narrator would be Number\nFifty, not five.\n\nThis is why Aunt Jeannine initially says \"That number's\neither far too low or too high.\" It's too low because there are\nmore like 50 clones, and it _seems_ too high to her\nbecause she doesn't know about David. But if you count\nher, the narrator, his \"father\", Mr Million and David you get\nfive." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Aunt Jeannine is counting members of the family (that's why she says\n\"Living\" after that). She does not seem to be aware of what is going on.\nActually I think that the number refers to the generation of clones. #5\nis the fifth and his \"father\" is #4. Each previous one creating the next\none.\n\nWe know the numbers do not apply to members of the family, because when\nDavid goes to the lab, he is plain David. And if the \"father\" is using\nthe number because he and #5 share the same name (Gene Wolfe, that is),\n#2 would be a far more obvious choice.\n\nDavid is not a clone, because he has blond hair while #5 is brown\nhaired." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As for who is Number One, I'm not sure that question applies,\nbut I suppose you could say it's the father, as he's the current\nmaster of the brood." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well Mr Million is the great-grandfather of #5, so that would make him\n#2. The \"father\" is number #4 and the grandfather is mentioned in the\ntext and he would be #3. So, who is #1 is an open question.\n\nBest\n\nPedro Jorge (who too wants to be a lurker again, but Fifth is too good a\nbook not to discuss about it)" } ] } ] }