{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4702", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4702, "subject": "The Old Autarch and Paeon", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2006-08-28T22:56:46+00:00", "last": "2006-08-29T17:47:32+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan Rabin", "address": "wolfe-lists at danrabin.com" }, "date": "2006-08-28T22:56:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Old Autarch and Paeon", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have always interpreted the passage mentioning Paeon the \nhoney-steward to be saying that the Old Autarch received instruction \nregarding the succession from someone he knew to be an aquastor of \nPaeon, his trusted teacher from his youth.\n\nIn other words, Paeon is to Old Autarch as Malrubius is to Severian.\n\nThis has seemed completely obvious to me since my second reading \n(which was the first for catching many internal references).\n\nIndependently, I'm one of those who doesn't think that the Old \nAutarch is Appian, precisely for the reason already cited that \nAppian's name is mentioned as a historical autarch, but the Old \nAutarch's name is never mentioned in any scene where he is present or \neven definitely referred to.\n\nI have toyed with the idea that there's some sort of taboo on names \nof Autarchs during their reigns, but Severian wouldn't have to \nabserve such a stricture at the time he's writing. Perhaps he has \ntrouble distinguishing the Old Autarch from himself ever since the \nsuccessional encephelophagy.\n\nIn case anyone needs another puzzle to speculate about, it has long \nannoyed me that Severian describes the Autarch on the counterfeit \nchrisos from Vodalus as androgynous, which I have (since second \nreading) always assumed to mean that it's the Old Autarch (the only \none since Ymar to take the test in Yesod), yet Severian needs \nThecla's memories to recognize the guy as the Autarch when he \nactually meets him.\n\n -- Dan Rabin" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20060828234218.EAFB8DA824@mailserver7.hushmail.com>", "from": { "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com", "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com" }, "date": "2006-08-28T23:42:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Old Autarch and Paeon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 08:56:46 +1000 Dan Rabin wrote:\nI have always interpreted the passage mentioning Paeon the \nhoney-steward to be saying that the Old Autarch received \ninstruction \nregarding the succession from someone he knew to be an aquastor of " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Paeon, his trusted teacher from his youth.\n\nIn other words, Paeon is to Old Autarch as Malrubius is to \nSeverian.\n\nThis has seemed completely obvious to me since my second reading \n(which was the first for catching many internal references)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A quick \"me too\"; I don't see how this can be in dispute, but maybe \nI'm missing something." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In case anyone needs another puzzle to speculate about, it has \nlong \nannoyed me that Severian describes the Autarch on the counterfeit \nchrisos from Vodalus as androgynous, which I have (since second \nreading) always assumed to mean that it's the Old Autarch (the \nonly \none since Ymar to take the test in Yesod), yet Severian needs \nThecla's memories to recognize the guy as the Autarch when he \nactually meets him." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And how is it that people around the House Absolute don't recognize \nthe the servitor as the Old Autarch? I think maybe there are some \n\"continuity\" glitches here." } ] }, { "message_id": "<292fdbb40608291047y67d16950gaf805ec3efa8d410@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dr. C. Radish Mosswalls", "address": "soviet.carwash at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-08-29T17:47:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) RE: The Old Autarch and Paeon", "in_reply_to": "<20060828234218.EAFB8DA824@mailserver7.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan said, *\"In case anyone needs another puzzle to speculate about, it has\nlong\nannoyed me that Severian describes the Autarch on the counterfeit\nchrisos from Vodalus as androgynous, which I have (since second\nreading) always assumed to mean that it's the Old Autarch (the only\none since Ymar to take the test in Yesod), yet Severian needs\nThecla's memories to recognize the guy as the Autarch when he\nactually meets him.\"\n*\nThe general impression I get is that the profile of the Autarch on the\ncoinage never changes. And to me it makes sense for an unchanging,\nandrogynous image since the Autarch isn't just one guy, but a whole group of\ndifferent people in one body. Just an idea.\n\n-Jessie" } ] } ] }