{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4709", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4709, "subject": "TWK: Tower of Glas", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2006-09-05T21:11:29+00:00", "last": "2006-09-06T01:56:03+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<44fb53d10609051411q3a75f3b4q7b81bd4b09c4ddf3@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-09-05T21:11:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TWK: Tower of Glas", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi,\n\nI'm new here, and likely won't be participating in that many discussions as\nyet, as there are still many of Wolfe's books that I haven't read and which\nI should like to complete before taking a more active part in this list.\nNonetheless, I wanted to join this list and I did. I've looked at the \"back\nissues\" of this group, but couldn't find anything dealing specifically with\nwhat I'm about to bring up...\n\n(I should perhaps warn that there are major spoilers for TWK here.)\n\nIn The Wizard Knight, Wolfe seems to want us to identify the Tower of Glas\nwith the Tower of Babel, but it seems to me that the tower in question also\nresembles Dante's Purgatory in many ways. I found this rather perplexing, as\nwhile the Tower of Babel is clearly a symbol of evil (rebellion against God,\nhubris, etc.), Purgatory is something manifestly good and holy. I figure I\nshould be a bit more specific, so I've composed a lists comparing the ToG\nwith Babel and with Purgatory.\n\nBABEL / ToG\n-The Tower of Glas is built by Aelf who wish to reach Mythgarthr, while\nBabel is built by men who wish to reach heaven. I think it may be noteworthy\nthat though Babel is never completed, the Tower of Glas does in fact reach\ninto Mythgarthr.\n\nPURGATORY / ToG\n-To ascend Purgatory, one must walk a path which circles the mountain\nitself; to ascend the ToG, one must take circling stairs.\n-The climb of Purgatory leads one to be purified of sins; Uri and Baki are\nostensibly cleared of their allegiance to Setr at the top of the ToG.\n-At the top of Purgatory is the Earthly Paradise / Eden; the top of the ToG\nis the beautiful Isle of Glas.\n-The voyager in Purgatory sees representations of Satan in the form of a\nserpent; Able sees Setr as a serpent / dragon in the Eden-like jungle on the\nIsle of Glas.\n-Able's mother lives (at one point) on the Isle of Glas; I'm reminded of\nEve, the \"first mother,\" who lived in Eden / the Earthly Paradise.\n-Angels are present in Purgatory; Able meets Michael for the first time on\nthe Isle of Glas.\n\nAny thoughts on what Wolfe is trying to do here? It seems rather odd to so\nmix Purgatory and Babel; the Tower of Glas seems a rather ambiguous symbol\n(Though, looking at my list, there seem to be more parallels to Purgatory\nthan to Babel). I wonder if Able undergoes any purification in climbing the\nToG? That would seem to fit the interpretation of the ToG as a sort of\nPurgatory...\n\nThanks for any thoughts or comments. I think I'm going to enjoy this list...\n\n-Matt Keeley" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2006-09-06T01:56:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TWK: Tower of Glas", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10609051411q3a75f3b4q7b81bd4b09c4ddf3@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Matthew Keeley wrote:\nIn The Wizard Knight, Wolfe seems to want us to identify the Tower of Glas\nwith the Tower of Babel, but it seems to me that the tower in question also\nresembles Dante's Purgatory in many ways. I found this rather perplexing, as\nwhile the Tower of Babel is clearly a symbol of evil (rebellion against God,\nhubris, etc.), Purgatory is something manifestly good and holy.\n...\nAny thoughts on what Wolfe is trying to do here? It seems rather odd to so\nmix Purgatory and Babel; the Tower of Glas seems a rather ambiguous symbol" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi, welcome to the list! (though I should add I am more a regular reader\nthan participant). I like the comparison you make (list snipped).\n\nI would have thought \"as above, so below\", but with the proviso that the\ndeeper you go, the less perfect the resemblance, and the more likely\nthings are to go wrong -- the Island of Glas is less than paradisical,\neven though it may be glamorous. Movement upwards in the worlds must be\nlawful I think -- that is arranged by a higherup for one who is worthy or\nmade worthy by the love of those above. In that sense the Tower is\nhubristic. Wolfe is big on the conflation of Faery with the land of the\ndead, so a connection forcing its way up like that doesn't sound\npropitious to me.\n\nThe Tower of Glas also appears in _Castleview_, by the way.\n\nDavid Duffy." } ] } ] }