{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4713", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4713, "subject": "Dr. Talos", "messages": 5, "voices": 5, "first": "2006-09-06T18:35:41+00:00", "last": "2006-09-10T16:49:36+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-09-06T18:35:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Dr. Talos", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Occurs to me: are Vodalus and the Doctor the only people in the Book with \ncane-swords? And >does this imply a connection I'm not seeing?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A cane-sword seems like a unique enough item to merit some sort of \nconnection but I don't see it either. Talos acquires his gold headed cane \nas a \"dropsie\" after one of Baldanders' scary rampages during the play. A \nnervous exultant in the audience? Hard to believe it is Vodalus.\n\nAlso, Talos loves whacking the heads off flowers with his cane. What's up \nwith that? And what's up with him in general? A homunculus? Name from a \nmythical bronze man? Hot dry skin. No sex, sleep or food needed? He seems \nto understand Urth to Ushas better than anyone else. How does he know about \nthe woman on the Path of Air? Why do F, B and O befuddle and anger him? Is \nhe (as I see the 5 coffin mausoleum) a literary insertion (fun with \nFrankenstein) not an integral part of the plot?\nAnyone have any insight here?\n\n-bsharp" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370609061155v7cd08355r398a878777f8ba06@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-09-06T18:55:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Dr. Talos", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/6/06, b sharp wrote:\nA cane-sword seems like a unique enough item to merit some sort of\nconnection but I don't see it either. Talos acquires his gold headed\ncane as a \"dropsie\" after one of Baldanders' scary rampages during\nthe play. A nervous exultant in the audience? Hard to believe it is\nVodalus." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, I don't think it's hard at all -- we know that Vodalus's people have\nbeen watching Severian and the krew; we know that Vodalus visits\nthe city occasionally. As a spot check, we can look when we get to\nthe appropriate part of Book II and see if there's any mention of\nVodalus's swordcane, but I'll bet there isn't." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, Talos loves whacking the heads off flowers with his cane.\nWhat's up with that?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Channeling Seinfeld, B? 8*)\n\nWe know that flowers in general are significant in the Book, and that\nroses in particular signify the Conciliator. And Talos works for (& was\ncreated by) someone who opposes the return of the Conciliator/New\nSun. H'mmm." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And what's up with him in general? A homunculus? Name from a\nmythical bronze man? Hot dry skin. No sex, sleep or food needed?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"Very little\" food or sleep; it's certainly possible that this is a code for\n\"none,\" but then we have to ask what his energy source is. He clearly\ndoesn't burn fossil fuels! But \"hot dry skin\" implies to me that perhaps\nhe does use some heat-producing power plant. A mininuke perhaps?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "He seems to understand Urth to Ushas better than anyone else." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Including (interestingly enough) Baldanders. He has surpassed\nhis maker in some significant ways; this might itself be something of\na \"theme\" in tBotNS, given the history of the Hiero-foos. But when\nhe deliberately evokes Frankenstein, I'm forcefully reminded of the\nmost chilling line in Shelley's book: \"You are my creator, but I am\nyour master. Obey!\"" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\nI've got a piece of braaaaain lodge in me heeead!!!" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2006-09-06T23:51:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Dr. Talos", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sep 6, 2006, at 11:35 AM, b sharp wrote:\nAlso, Talos loves whacking the heads off flowers with his cane. \nWhat's up\nwith that?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I see that as the Frankenstein flower-picking reference." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And what's up with him in general? A homunculus? Name from a\nmythical bronze man? Hot dry skin. No sex, sleep or food needed?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "All of these: Onomastics works quite well here. Talos is an \nautomaton, a creation of Baldanders: \"face like a stuffed fox\"--think \nof him as a *very* sophisticated alarm clock. Although he eventually \nacquires a measure of independence.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<001801c6d227$44464050$a98bd8cf@rw9s6no3t0dhzd>", "from": { "name": "Russell Wodell", "address": "wrustle at telus.net" }, "date": "2006-09-07T02:42:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Dr. Talos", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have always seen Dr. Talos as the fox in Disney's Pinocchio: \n\"Hi-diddlee-dee, an actor's life for me!\" And Severian dreams of being a \npuppet, not a real boy...\n\nRussell Wodell\n----- Original Message ----- " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Adam Thornton\" \nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nSent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:51 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) Dr. Talos\n\nOn Sep 6, 2006, at 11:35 AM, b sharp wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Also, Talos loves whacking the heads off flowers with his cane.\nWhat's up\nwith that?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I see that as the Frankenstein flower-picking reference." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And what's up with him in general? A homunculus? Name from a\nmythical bronze man? Hot dry skin. No sex, sleep or food needed?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "All of these: Onomastics works quite well here. Talos is an\nautomaton, a creation of Baldanders: \"face like a stuffed fox\"--think\nof him as a *very* sophisticated alarm clock. Although he eventually\nacquires a measure of independence.\n\nAdam\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<8476d0320609100949k7f2e60c5gdcac903eed4838fc@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Bruce Hayles", "address": "brucehayles at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-09-10T16:49:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Dr. Talos", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370609061155v7cd08355r398a878777f8ba06@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Baldanders created Dr. Talos to be everything he is not. 'Baldanders wisely\nmade me all that he is not, so that I might counterweight his deficiencies.\nI am not fond of money, for example. That's an excellent thing for the\npatient, in a personal physician. And I am loyal to my friends, because he\nis first of them.' (pg 181 in Sword & Citadel) Baldanders is a scientist and\na creator; perhaps Dr. Talos is an artist and a destroyer. Dr. Talos puts on\nplays but always interrupts their performance; he creates Jolenta, but in\nthe end destroys her. When he kills flowers, I see that as idle destruction.\nI think it unlikely that Dr. Talos is now the \"master\" of Baldaders.\nBaldanders needs the beatings to wake him up--otherwise he would sleep too\nlong. Baldanders created the physician to maintain his growth and keep\nhimself in check: he expected that his doctor would have to order him\naround." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/6/06, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\n\nOn 9/6/06, b sharp wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "A cane-sword seems like a unique enough item to merit some sort of\nconnection but I don't see it either. Talos acquires his gold headed\ncane as a \"dropsie\" after one of Baldanders' scary rampages during\nthe play. A nervous exultant in the audience? Hard to believe it is\nVodalus." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "No, I don't think it's hard at all -- we know that Vodalus's people have\nbeen watching Severian and the krew; we know that Vodalus visits\nthe city occasionally. As a spot check, we can look when we get to\nthe appropriate part of Book II and see if there's any mention of\nVodalus's swordcane, but I'll bet there isn't." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Also, Talos loves whacking the heads off flowers with his cane.\nWhat's up with that?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Channeling Seinfeld, B? 8*)\n\nWe know that flowers in general are significant in the Book, and that\nroses in particular signify the Conciliator. And Talos works for (& was\ncreated by) someone who opposes the return of the Conciliator/New\nSun. H'mmm." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And what's up with him in general? A homunculus? Name from a\nmythical bronze man? Hot dry skin. No sex, sleep or food needed?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Very little\" food or sleep; it's certainly possible that this is a code\nfor\n\"none,\" but then we have to ask what his energy source is. He clearly\ndoesn't burn fossil fuels! But \"hot dry skin\" implies to me that perhaps\nhe does use some heat-producing power plant. A mininuke perhaps?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "He seems to understand Urth to Ushas better than anyone else." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Including (interestingly enough) Baldanders. He has surpassed\nhis maker in some significant ways; this might itself be something of\na \"theme\" in tBotNS, given the history of the Hiero-foos. But when\nhe deliberately evokes Frankenstein, I'm forcefully reminded of the\nmost chilling line in Shelley's book: \"You are my creator, but I am\nyour master. Obey!\"\n\n--\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\nI've got a piece of braaaaain lodge in me heeead!!!\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }