Subject: (urth) Dr. Talos

From: b sharp <bsharporflat at hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:35:41 +0000

Dan'l says:

>Occurs to me: are Vodalus and the Doctor the only people in the Book with 
>cane-swords? And >does this imply a connection I'm not seeing?

A cane-sword seems like a unique enough item to merit some sort of 
connection but I don't see it either.  Talos acquires his gold headed cane 
as a "dropsie" after one of Baldanders' scary rampages during the play.  A 
nervous exultant in the audience?  Hard to believe it is Vodalus.

Also, Talos loves whacking the heads off flowers with his cane.  What's up 
with that?  And what's up with him in general?  A homunculus?  Name from a 
mythical bronze man?  Hot dry skin.  No sex, sleep or food needed?  He seems 
to understand Urth to Ushas better than anyone else.  How does he know about 
the woman on the Path of Air?  Why do F, B and O befuddle and anger him?  Is 
he (as I see the 5 coffin mausoleum) a literary insertion (fun with 
Frankenstein) not an integral part of the plot?
Anyone have any insight here?

-bsharp

---

From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:55:41 +0000

On 9/6/06, b sharp <bsharporflat at hotmail.com> wrote:
> connection but I don't see it either.  Talos acquires his gold headed
> cane as a "dropsie" after one of Baldanders' scary rampages during
> the play.  A nervous exultant in the audience?  Hard to believe it is
> Vodalus.

No, I don't think it's hard at all -- we know that Vodalus's people have
been watching Severian and the krew; we know that Vodalus visits
the city occasionally. As a spot check, we can look when we get to
the appropriate part of Book II and see if there's any mention of
Vodalus's swordcane, but I'll bet there isn't.

> Also, Talos loves whacking the heads off flowers with his cane.
> What's up with that?

Channeling Seinfeld, B? 8*)

We know that flowers in general are significant in the Book, and that
roses in particular signify the Conciliator. And Talos works for (& was
created by) someone who opposes the return of the Conciliator/New
Sun. H'mmm.

> And what's up with him in general?  A homunculus?  Name from a
> mythical bronze man?  Hot dry skin.  No sex, sleep or food needed?

"Very little" food or sleep; it's certainly possible that this is a code for
"none," but then we have to ask what his energy source is. He clearly
doesn't burn fossil fuels! But "hot dry skin" implies to me that perhaps
he does use some heat-producing power plant.  A mininuke perhaps?

> He seems to understand Urth to Ushas better than anyone else.

Including (interestingly enough)  Baldanders. He has surpassed
his maker in some significant ways; this might itself be something of
a "theme" in tBotNS, given the history of the Hiero-foos. But when
he deliberately evokes Frankenstein, I'm forcefully reminded of the
most chilling line in Shelley's book: "You are my creator, but I am
your master. Obey!"

-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant
-----
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer
http://www.danehyoakes.com
I've got a piece of braaaaain lodge in me heeead!!!

---

From: Adam Thornton <adam at io.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:51:47 +0000

On Sep 6, 2006, at 11:35 AM, b sharp wrote:
> What's up
> with that?

I see that as the Frankenstein flower-picking reference.

> mythical bronze man?  Hot dry skin.  No sex, sleep or food needed?

All of these: Onomastics works quite well here.  Talos is an  
automaton, a creation of Baldanders: "face like a stuffed fox"--think  
of him as a *very* sophisticated alarm clock.  Although he eventually  
acquires a measure of independence.

Adam

---

From: Russell Wodell <wrustle at telus.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 02:42:31 +0000

I have always seen Dr. Talos as the fox in Disney's Pinocchio: 
"Hi-diddlee-dee, an actor's life for me!" And Severian dreams of being a 
puppet, not a real boy...

Russell Wodell
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From: "Adam Thornton" <adam at io.com>
To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: (urth) Dr. Talos

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From: Bruce Hayles <brucehayles at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:49:36 +0000

Baldanders created Dr. Talos to be everything he is not. 'Baldanders wisely
made me all that he is not, so that I might counterweight his deficiencies.
I am not fond of money, for example. That's an excellent thing for the
patient, in a personal physician. And I am loyal to my friends, because he
is first of them.' (pg 181 in Sword & Citadel) Baldanders is a scientist and
a creator; perhaps Dr. Talos is an artist and a destroyer. Dr. Talos puts on
plays but always interrupts their performance; he creates Jolenta, but in
the end destroys her. When he kills flowers, I see that as idle destruction.
I think it unlikely that Dr. Talos is now the "master" of Baldaders.
Baldanders needs the beatings to wake him up--otherwise he would sleep too
long. Baldanders created the physician to maintain his growth and keep
himself in check: he expected that his doctor would have to order him
around.

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