{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4726", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4726, "subject": "Thecla's genealogy folio", "messages": 9, "voices": 6, "first": "2006-10-04T06:56:41+00:00", "last": "2006-10-12T19:42:34+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<000c01c6e782$4210cd80$ef3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-10-04T06:56:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thecla's genealogy folio", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I had not read Wolfe's essay \"Books in _The Book of the New Sun_\" before a\nfew weeks ago, when I obtained a copy of PLAN[E]T ENGINEERING. Wolfe said\nsomething else in the essay about Thecla's four books that has caused me no\nend of annoyance. He said, \"[t]hey all must have something to do with\nSeverian.\"\n\nThecla did not, of course, know anything about Severian when she requested\nthe books. She just wanted help from her relatives and/or the Conciliator.\nThree of the books, as I outlined in my previous post, concern the\nConciliator to a greater or lesser degree, so they necessarily have\nsomething to do with Severian. It's the folio with the genealogical charts\nthat bugs me. I suppose I could fall back to the position that, since\nSeverian comes to possess Thecla's memories and personality, anything that\nwas important to her had something to do with him, but that's too easy and I\ncan't make myself believe that's all there is to it. No, I think that Wolfe\nis suggesting that Severian and Thecla are blood relatives.\n\nAll of the attempts to link the two that I am aware of have speculated that\nthey share a common parent, one that appears on stage in NEW SUN or is at\nleast mentioned, however obliquely; that or they are related by someone only\na generation or two removed from them. Maybe so, but I have yet to be\nconvinced.\n\nAn alternative relationship might be suggested by the antiquity of at least\ntwo of the other three books and their connection to the Conciliator. The\nbrown book dates back at least three or four centuries and Canog's book to\nthe time of Ymar. Might it be that Thecla is related not so much to the\napprentice Severian as to the Conciliator? Even if the connection is not\nrecognizable or known to her?\n\nSeveral times in the Urth Cycle it is implied that Severian makes (will\nmake) trips into the past that are not related in the text. The Conciliator\nmight have entered Thecla's family tree anywhen from Typhon's time onward.\n\nIt must be remembered that Severian made a big deal about how much his\neducation was enhanced by the reading and studying of those four books. And\neven if he had not studied the genealogical charts, Thecla did and he had\nher memories. He might have gone into the past for the express purpose of\nmaking *come* true what he knew *had been* true. After all, someone also\nbuilt that mausoleum and someone tinkered with the body count from time to\ntime.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-10-04T07:35:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thecla's genealogy folio", "in_reply_to": "<000c01c6e782$4210cd80$ef3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Interesting - to be honest I can't think of any interpretation of that \nstatement that really makes any more sense than what you just offered.\n\nBut, yeesh, the incest-factor is being a little overloaded here." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I had not read Wolfe's essay \"Books in _The Book of the New Sun_\" before a\nfew weeks ago, when I obtained a copy of PLAN[E]T ENGINEERING. Wolfe said\nsomething else in the essay about Thecla's four books that has caused me no\nend of annoyance. He said, \"[t]hey all must have something to do with\nSeverian.\"\n\nThecla did not, of course, know anything about Severian when she requested\nthe books. She just wanted help from her relatives and/or the Conciliator.\nThree of the books, as I outlined in my previous post, concern the\nConciliator to a greater or lesser degree, so they necessarily have\nsomething to do with Severian. It's the folio with the genealogical charts\nthat bugs me. I suppose I could fall back to the position that, since\nSeverian comes to possess Thecla's memories and personality, anything that\nwas important to her had something to do with him, but that's too easy and \nI\ncan't make myself believe that's all there is to it. No, I think that Wolfe\nis suggesting that Severian and Thecla are blood relatives.\n\nAll of the attempts to link the two that I am aware of have speculated that\nthey share a common parent, one that appears on stage in NEW SUN or is at\nleast mentioned, however obliquely; that or they are related by someone \nonly\na generation or two removed from them. Maybe so, but I have yet to be\nconvinced.\n\nAn alternative relationship might be suggested by the antiquity of at least\ntwo of the other three books and their connection to the Conciliator. The\nbrown book dates back at least three or four centuries and Canog's book to\nthe time of Ymar. Might it be that Thecla is related not so much to the\napprentice Severian as to the Conciliator? Even if the connection is not\nrecognizable or known to her?\n\nSeveral times in the Urth Cycle it is implied that Severian makes (will\nmake) trips into the past that are not related in the text. The Conciliator\nmight have entered Thecla's family tree anywhen from Typhon's time onward.\n\nIt must be remembered that Severian made a big deal about how much his\neducation was enhanced by the reading and studying of those four books. And\neven if he had not studied the genealogical charts, Thecla did and he had\nher memories. He might have gone into the past for the express purpose of\nmaking *come* true what he knew *had been* true. After all, someone also\nbuilt that mausoleum and someone tinkered with the body count from time to\ntime.\n\n-Roy\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-10-04T15:41:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thecla's genealogy folio", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So, if I understand correctly, Roy is suggesting that Severian's two \ngreatest loves, Dorcas and Thecla, are his grandmother and his great, great \netc....grandaughter? Surely there is some appreciable symmetry to that.\n\nDo we need to rely on Severian making multiple time trips back to the \nConcilliator's era to allow him to father a child? After all, in the text, \nhe has sexual congress with one person during that time. A big girl, rather \nthan a tall girl but she has the dark, curling hair, doesn't Burgundofora? \nI always thought her purpose in the story was too vague to account for her \nsubstantial role. Maybe Roy's idea ties in here?\n\nChris says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But, yeesh, the incest-factor is being a little overloaded here." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Naturally I disagree. I don't think I'll be happy until all of Severian's \nsexual escapades are demonstrated as being with a family member. Curse of \nthe Greek gods and all that.\n\n-bsharp" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I had not read Wolfe's essay \"Books in _The Book of the New Sun_\" before a\nfew weeks ago, when I obtained a copy of PLAN[E]T ENGINEERING. Wolfe said\nsomething else in the essay about Thecla's four books that has caused me no\nend of annoyance. He said, \"[t]hey all must have something to do with\nSeverian.\".>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Thecla did not, of course, know anything about Severian when she requested\nthe books. She just wanted help from her relatives and/or the Conciliator." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Three of the books, as I outlined in my previous post, concern the\nConciliator to a greater or lesser degree, so they necessarily have\nsomething to do with Severian. It's the folio with the genealogical charts\nthat bugs me. I suppose I could fall back to the position that, since\nSeverian comes to possess Thecla's memories and personality, anything that\nwas important to her had something to do with him, but that's too easy and I\ncan't make myself believe that's all there is to it. No, I think that Wolfe\nis suggesting that Severian and Thecla are blood relatives.>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "All of the attempts to link the two that I am aware of have speculated that\nthey share a common parent, one that appears on stage in NEW SUN or is at\nleast mentioned, however obliquely; that or they are related by someone only\na generation or two removed from them. Maybe so, but I have yet to be\nconvinced.>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "An alternative relationship might be suggested by the antiquity of at least\ntwo of the other three books and their connection to the Conciliator. The\nbrown book dates back at least three or four centuries and Canog's book to\nthe time of Ymar. Might it be that Thecla is related not so much to the\napprentice Severian as to the Conciliator? Even if the connection is not\nrecognizable or known to her?>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Several times in the Urth Cycle it is implied that Severian makes (will\nmake) trips into the past that are not related in the text. The Conciliator\nmight have entered Thecla's family tree anywhen from Typhon's time onward.>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It must be remembered that Severian made a big deal about how much his\neducation was enhanced by the reading and studying of those four books. And\neven if he had not studied the genealogical charts, Thecla did and he had\nher memories. He might have gone into the past for the express purpose of\nmaking *come* true what he knew *had been* true. After all, someone also\nbuilt that mausoleum and someone tinkered with the body count from time to\ntime.>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1160193566.23258.272763134@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "from": { "name": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus", "address": "lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm" }, "date": "2006-10-07T03:59:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thecla's genealogy folio", "in_reply_to": "<000c01c6e782$4210cd80$ef3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Roy Lackey writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Three of the books, as I outlined in my previous post, concern the Conciliator to a greater or lesser degree, so they necessarily have something to do with Severian. It's the folio with the genealogical charts that bugs me. I suppose I could fall back to the position that, since Severian comes to possess Thecla's memories and personality, anything that was important to her had something to do with him, but that's too easy and I can't make myself believe that's all there is to it. No, I think that Wolfe is suggesting that Severian and Thecla are blood relatives.<" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "All of the attempts to link the two that I am aware of have speculated that they share a common parent, one that appears on stage in NEW SUN or is at least mentioned, however obliquely; that or they are related by someone only a generation or two removed from them. Maybe so, but I have yet to be convinced.<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Meh. As far as I'm concerned, we can not even begin to address any\npossible genealogical connection between Severian and Thecla until we\nriddle out at least some of the latter's bloodline. Unfortunately, as we\nall know, she has only one named relative: half-sister Thea. This in\nitself makes the problem somewhat more complex since we must now try to\nfigure out whether the parent Thecla and Thea share is their mother or\nfather. Since I have no idea who the father(s) might be, I will instead\nattempt to pinpoint a possible candidate for mother--in my scheme the\none parent both siblings share.\n\nFirst, some basics. Thea and Thecla are exultants; it therefore seems\nlikely at least one of their parents is an exultant. If it's their\nmother, she may be part of the autarch's seraglio of hostages--we do,\nafter all, learn that Thecla is a member of the powerful northern clan;\nergo, her mother's possible confinement at the Well of Orchids. Plus she\nmust also be older. This, by far, eliminates many of the Chatelaines we\nmeet or hear of in the narrative; most are contemporaries of the two\nhalf-sisters. (E.g., Domnina, Josepha, and the non-khaibit versions of\nBarbea and Gracia). Many of the other female exultants we meet are\nmembers of the Pelerines, who are celebate, and therefore also excluded.\nAmong those remaining, who may be old enough and receive mention, I\ninclude the following: Leocadia, Nympha, and Lelia. But is there\nanything to connect any of these three exultant women to Thecla?\n\nThere, in fact, is, and the connection may be a tip of the hat to one of\nthe writers Wolfe claims to admire: the Russian emigr? Vladimir Nabokov,\nwho was as reknown in Lepidopteran circles as he was in literature.\nThecla, of course, as mantis's LU reminds us, is a genus of delicately\ncolored butterflies, the hairstreaks. But what those of us who've\ncollected butterflies in our youth also may or may not remember is that\nthere's a butterfly named Empress Lelia--a rather unlikely coincidence\nin my opinion. So is it possible that the two exultants are mother and\ndaughter? Thecla, we remember, has been prophesized to someday occupy\nthe throne--who better than someone who's the daughter of an \"Empress\"?\n'Thecla' and 'Lelia' also observe Borski's cryptonymic association and\nthere is an orchid named after the same Roman gens from whence Lelia\nderives. It seems equally apt that the name Lelia occurs only once and\nthe end of a somewhat Byzantine and bizarre sentence; Wolfe, I believe,\nis particularly deceitful in this manner. And look exactly how her\nmention reads: \"[Hethor] clutched his cap (reminding me of the morning\nwhen he had found me camping on the grass by Ctesiphon's Cross) and\nsaid, \"I am the slave of my master, far-traveled, m-m-map-worn Hethor am\nI, dust-choked and doubly deserted,\" looking at me all the while with\nbright, deranged eyes, like one of the Chatelaine Lelia's hairless rats,\nrats that ran in circles and bit their own tails when one clapped one's\nhands.\" The rat biting its tail seems a castration image and may support\nthe notion that the penultimate autarch is Thecla's father.\n\nBut as for how Lelia and someone from Severian's family are related, I\nknow not. Perhaps all of the 1,492 Exulted Families derive from a single\nremote ancestor--the same way all of us are descended from King Arthur.\nThey are, as Jonas tells us, the most recent to arrive on Urth and thus\nmay not be as genetically diverse as the general populace, especially if\nprone to intermarriage." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Rex Lycanthrosaurus\n lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n-- \nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<000c01c6ea46$44633340$1a3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-10-07T19:24:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thecla's genealogy folio", "in_reply_to": "<1160193566.23258.272763134@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus wrote:\nMeh. As far as I'm concerned, we can not even begin to address any\npossible genealogical connection between Severian and Thecla until we\nriddle out at least some of the latter's bloodline. Unfortunately, as we\nall know, she has only one named relative: half-sister Thea. This in\nitself makes the problem somewhat more complex since we must now try to\nfigure out whether the parent Thecla and Thea share is their mother or\nfather. Since I have no idea who the father(s) might be, I will instead\nattempt to pinpoint a possible candidate for mother--in my scheme the\none parent both siblings share.<<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You just ruined what I was writing! I was bringing up some of the same\npoints, even the King Arthur bit. I agree, it would help if we knew who the\nparents were of the half-sisters, but I can't even be sure which parent they\nhave in common, much less who that person is. I think I know where most of\nthe information relevant to their parents is in the text, but I can't put it\ntogether so that it makes sense. I can think of arguments against them\nsharing either parent." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "First, some basics. Thea and Thecla are exultants; it therefore seems\nlikely at least one of their parents is an exultant.<<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Both sisters are specified to be exultants in that CLAW appendix. It also\nstates that one must be born an exultant and that one remains an exultant\nfor life. But there is no indication of the social status of half-breeds,\nwhich may or may not be relevant." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "If it's their" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mother, she may be part of the autarch's seraglio of hostages--we do,\nafter all, learn that Thecla is a member of the powerful northern clan;\nergo, her mother's possible confinement at the Well of Orchids.<<\n[snip]\n\nAgreed.\n\n[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The rat biting its tail seems a castration image and may support\nthe notion that the penultimate autarch is Thecla's father.<<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "He can't be, because Thecla's father died sometime before her arrest (and I\ndon't buy Borski's dodge of that fact). And the autarch wasn't an exultant.\n\nImmediately after saying that all the books must have something to do with\nSeverian, Wolfe gave the example of the book with the enameled pictures, the\ncoming encounter with Dorcas and her family's past manufacture of cloisonne.\nI don't know if that's a left-handed hint that Severian and Thecla are\nrelated on Dorcas's side of the family, or just that he and Dorcas are\nrelated (this was 1984), or both or neither.\n\nDorcas was very petite and I don't think her husband was tall. Severian\ndraws attention to his height (perhaps too much so) both early and late in\nNEW SUN, yet he's not really particularly tall, even among people he meets.\nFor example, Drotte, Roche and Ouen are all about his own height. And a true\nexultant male, such as Ultan, is a head and a half taller. Both Thecla and\nThea were taller than Severian.\n\nBorski suggested that the Starost Egino might be Thecla's stepfather. Maybe.\n\nHere are some of the \"facts\" that have to be accounted for:\n\nIt seems that *both* sisters are hostages, since Gurloes said that Thea had\n\"fled\" the House Absolute to be with Vodalus. The autarch needs only one\nhostage per family, so holding both sisters suggests to me that they\nrepresent two distinct family branches, even if Thea was not also among the\n\"inner circle\" of concubines.\n\nWhich sister is the older? Severian told Thea that Thecla had told him that,\nif she were released, she would move to the country and refurnish the old\nestate from which she took her title (the chateau). That seems to indicate\nthat the place was hers to do with as she pleased. Her father was dead, so\nthe estate had evidently fallen to her. I don't know if that means that her\nmother was also dead, or if the mother just didn't figure in the line of\ninheritance. But what is interesting is that Thea replied that that house\nnow belonged to her, but she couldn't claim it, presumably because she was a\nfugitive. I'm not sure what that implies about Thea's relationship to\nThecla's father.\n\nI can, offhand, think of only one time Thecla spoke of Thea when they were\nboth children together -- the sewing of Josepha's doll. On the other\noccasions where Thecla's childhood surfaces, there is no indication that\nThea was around. If they were not together much as girls, that suggests that\nthey grew up in different households.\n\nAs I've said before, one of Thecla's memories is of her running naked by the\nAcis, presumably as a child. The map in PE shows exultant villas on the\nsouthwestern shore of Lake Diuturna and states flatly, \"Thecla was here as a\nchild\". The Acis is nowhere near the lake. Again, no mention of Thea at\neither place. Neither does it seem that Thea was living with Thecla in the\nsuite at the House Absolute at the time of the Domnina incident, when Thecla\nwas 13. But Thecla's \"mother's servitrix\" was there, so presumably the\nmother was alive then.\n\nWhat a mess!\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<452826FD.1060805@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2006-10-07T22:15:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thecla's genealogy folio", "in_reply_to": "<000c01c6ea46$44633340$1a3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nAs I've said before, one of Thecla's memories is of her running naked by the\nAcis, presumably as a child. The map in PE shows exultant villas on the\nsouthwestern shore of Lake Diuturna and states flatly, \"Thecla was here as a\nchild\". The Acis is nowhere near the lake." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This, at least, is explainable as evidence of the use of flyers by the \nexultants other than strictly between their estates and the Autarch's \ndemesne. Exultant children could easily have memories of trips to \nanywhere their parents dared take them in the course of their ruling and \nschemeing." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1160277283.22696.272802872@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "from": { "name": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus", "address": "lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm" }, "date": "2006-10-08T03:14:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thecla's genealogy folio", "in_reply_to": "<000c01c6ea46$44633340$1a3ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 14:24:47 -0500, \"Roy C. Lackey\" \nsaid:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As I've said before, one of Thecla's memories is of her running naked by\nthe\nAcis, presumably as a child." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I'd be lying if I said I hadn't wondered about Abdiesus being\neither Thecla's or Thea's father. Thrax is on the Acis, and Abdiesus--an\nexultant--rules it as Archon. What better way to secure his loyalty than\nto hold one (or both) of his daughters hostage back at the House\nAbsolute? It seems likely Thecla would rouse herself from the mnemonic\nbed she shares with Severian if he were her father, but maybe less so if\nhe were half-sister Thea's; then again, she does stir when Severian is\ngiven a paper coin, which is his ticket for admission to the ridotto:\n\"He extended his hand, holding delicately, as though he feared it would\nflutter from his fingers, one of those disks of stiff paper, no bigger\nthan a chrisos and lettered in gold leaf with ornate characters, of\nwhich I had often heard Thecla speak (she stirred in my mind at the\ntouch of it), but which I had never before seen.\" But how likely is it\nthat such disks are coin-of-the-realm so to speak and used for\ninvitations elsewhere/everywhere? And could the actual reason Thecla\nmakes her presence known involve her recognition of Abdiesus as either\nher or Thea's father? Severian may be misinterpreting the reason for her\narousal, and as far as that goes, no one is worse at recognizing kin\nthan our torturer hero.\n\nAbdiesus is butt-ugly, so the physical resemblance seems muted; still,\nas my own daughters resemble their mother, this is no impediment. Nor\ncan I find any age distinguishing characteristics that suggest Abdiesus\nmay be too young. And just as Thecla has eyes that may have been\nenlarged by \"the application of minute amounts of certain poisons during\nchildhood,\" Abdiesus has \"large eyes rimmed with dark flesh.\" \n\nFurther questions I'm unable to answer. Has Abdiesus been Archon long\nenough in this scheme? Would Palaemon send his beloved protege--who's\ndirectly responsible for Thecla's suicide--to serve as lictor under the\nman who may be her father? A nice bit of irony if so; just as is Sev's\nsparing Cyriaca from her death sentence. But if Thecla's biological\nfather is dead, as suggested by the text (\"my father had given a ball\nfor me each year until his death\" [unless this is some female autarch's\nmemory--a suggestion I do not like], it does not seem possible he's\nThecla's father. Therefore, he may well be Thea's. Isn't there evidence\nAbdiesus is actually co-operating with the rebels, perhaps even sharing\na corpse or two with his daughter and Vodalus? " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Rex Lycanthrosaurus\n lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n-- \nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin" } ] }, { "message_id": "<000c01c6ee34$04d7cf00$d23ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2006-10-12T19:24:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thecla's genealogy folio", "in_reply_to": "<1160277283.22696.272802872@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wrote:\nNo, I think that Wolfe\nis suggesting that Severian and Thecla are blood relatives." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Come to think of it, I might be wrong about that. There is another way that\nThecla's family tree can have something to do with Severian without his\nbeing related to her by blood. It might be that he is related by blood to\nThea, by way of whichever parent Thea does not share with her half-sister.\n\nThis gives some purpose to Thea's often mentioned heart-shaped face. Such a\nshape necessitates a sharp chin. Severian confirmed Cyriaca's guess that he\nalso had a sharp chin. This shared facial characteristic may be Wolfe's way\nof showing a genetic link. If this is correct, it also avoids the incest\nissue.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370610121242t5d4e379co5591616dd03a8e2f@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-10-12T19:42:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thecla's genealogy folio", "in_reply_to": "<000c01c6ee34$04d7cf00$d23ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 10/12/06, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nIf this is correct, it also avoids the incest issue." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And, as we all know, Wolfe would never involve Severian in\nanything as tawdry as incest.\n\nHhh. Hhhm. Heh. Heheh. BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\nTragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open\nsewer and die.\n - Mel Brooks" } ] } ] }