The Death of Doctor Island Movie

From: Jesper Svedberg <jsvedberg at gmail.com> Reply-To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: (urth) The Death of Doctor Island Movie Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:26:01 +0200 I just found this web site: http://www.doctorisland.com/ Has anyone heard of this project before? I bit of googling brings up that it's a short film of about 20 minutes. There's no mention of when it will be released, but they have apparently shot most of it already and is now in a post production phase. I was a bit surprised when I found it, since I hadn't heard anything about it before, but the stills on their homepage definitely look impressive and professional, so I really hope that we will actually see the finished product some time. // Jesper _______________________________________________

On 10/16/06, peter heyneman <pheyneman at hotmail.com> wrote: That's excellent. I always thought that the trio of IDD, DrOfDI, and DofDrI was the most accessible and visual of GWs works and would make an facinating triptych of short films. Hopefully this will not be awful and they'll make two more. --p

From: Jesper Svedberg <jsvedberg at gmail.com> Reply-To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: (urth) The Death of Doctor Island Movie Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:26:01 +0200 I just found this web site: http://www.doctorisland.com/ Has anyone heard of this project before? I bit of googling brings up that it's a short film of about 20 minutes. There's no mention of when it will be released, but they have apparently shot most of it already and is now in a post production phase. I was a bit surprised when I found it, since I hadn't heard anything about it before, but the stills on their homepage definitely look impressive and professional, so I really hope that we will actually see the finished product some time. // Jesper _______________________________________________

At 14:49 16/10/2006, you wrote: That's excellent. I always thought that the trio of IDD, DrOfDI, and DofDrI was the most accessible and visual of GWs works and would make an facinating triptych of short films. Hopefully this will not be awful and they'll make two more. --p

From: "Kurt Schwind" <kurt.schwind at gmail.com> Reply-To: kurt at slithytoves.org,The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net> Subject: Re: (urth) The Death of Doctor Island Movie Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 08:55:47 -0500 You think that that was more accessible than say Wizard Knight? On 10/16/06, peter heyneman <pheyneman at hotmail.com> wrote:

That's excellent. I always thought that the trio of IDD, DrOfDI, and DofDrI was the most accessible and visual of GWs works and would make an facinating triptych of short films. Hopefully this will not be awful and they'll make two more. --p

From: Jesper Svedberg <jsvedberg at gmail.com> Reply-To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: (urth) The Death of Doctor Island Movie Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:26:01 +0200 I just found this web site: http://www.doctorisland.com/ Has anyone heard of this project before? I bit of googling brings up that it's a short film of about 20 minutes. There's no mention of when it will be released, but they have apparently shot most of it already and is now in a post production phase. I was a bit surprised when I found it, since I hadn't heard anything about it before, but the stills on their homepage definitely look impressive and professional, so I really hope that we will actually see the finished product some time. // Jesper _______________________________________________

On 10/16/06, peter heyneman <pheyneman at hotmail.com> wrote: In terms of translation to pure visuals, definitely. WK, like most of his books, has so much shifty narrator business and perspective-skewing mysterious detail-dropping that turning it into a movie would be almost impossible to do right--it'd lose much of its quality and become another dry Sword and Sorcery tale. His short stories, especially from that era, rely less on the voice and more on the image. In terms of appeal to 15 year old WOW players, I agree Wizard/Knight is perfect. --p

From: "Kurt Schwind" <kurt.schwind at gmail.com> Reply-To: kurt at slithytoves.org,The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net> Subject: Re: (urth) The Death of Doctor Island Movie Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 08:55:47 -0500 You think that that was more accessible than say Wizard Knight? On 10/16/06, peter heyneman <pheyneman at hotmail.com> wrote:

That's excellent. I always thought that the trio of IDD, DrOfDI, and DofDrI was the most accessible and visual of GWs works and would make an facinating triptych of short films. Hopefully this will not be awful and they'll make two more. --p

From: Jesper Svedberg <jsvedberg at gmail.com> Reply-To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: (urth) The Death of Doctor Island Movie Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:26:01 +0200 I just found this web site: http://www.doctorisland.com/ Has anyone heard of this project before? I bit of googling brings up that it's a short film of about 20 minutes. There's no mention of when it will be released, but they have apparently shot most of it already and is now in a post production phase. I was a bit surprised when I found it, since I hadn't heard anything about it before, but the stills on their homepage definitely look impressive and professional, so I really hope that we will actually see the finished product some time. // Jesper _______________________________________________

I always thought that the trio of IDD, DrOfDI, and DofDrI was the most accessible and visual of GWs works and would make an facinating triptych of short films. Hopefully this will not be awful and they'll make two more.

On Monday 16 October 2006 12:55, David DiGiacomo wrote: I always thought that the trio of IDD, DrOfDI, and DofDrI was the most accessible and visual of GWs works and would make an facinating triptych of short films. Hopefully this will not be awful and they'll make two more.

I agree that The Death of Doctor Island is accessible in terms of understanding the plot, but I also find it to be one of Wolfe's most disturbing and offensive stories. I can't imagine what a mass audience would make of it.

On 10/16/06, Daniel D Jones <ddjones at riddlemaster.org> wrote: On Monday 16 October 2006 12:55, David DiGiacomo wrote:

I always thought that the trio of IDD, DrOfDI, and DofDrI was the most accessible and visual of GWs works and would make an facinating triptych of short films. Hopefully this will not be awful and they'll make two more.

I agree that The Death of Doctor Island is accessible in terms of understanding the plot, but I also find it to be one of Wolfe's most disturbing and offensive stories. I can't imagine what a mass audience would make of it.

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

I was thinking the same thing. I mean there is some violence in there, but nothing more than you'd find in any of his other books. Heck, he had an executioner for a protaganist. So what did you find offensive David?

At 18:38 16/10/2006, you wrote: Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

I was thinking the same thing. I mean there is some violence in there, but nothing more than you'd find in any of his other books. Heck, he had an executioner for a protaganist. So what did you find offensive David?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

On 10/16/06, Mo Holkar / UKG <lists at ukg.co.uk> wrote: At 18:38 16/10/2006, you wrote:

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

I was thinking the same thing. I mean there is some violence in there, but nothing more than you'd find in any of his other books. Heck, he had an executioner for a protaganist. So what did you find offensive David?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

I think a reader dead set on avoiding misogyny would have to avoid quite a lot of Wolfe's work. In my case it's something I put up with for the sake of the rest of the writing, but it does make me feel uncomfortable. He's far from the only SF writer with whom that's the case, of course. Mo _______________________________________________

On Oct 16, 2006, at 10:19 AM, peter heyneman wrote: In terms of translation to pure visuals, definitely. WK, like most of his books, has so much shifty narrator business and perspective-skewing mysterious detail-dropping that turning it into a movie would be almost impossible to do right--it'd lose much of its quality and become another dry Sword and Sorcery tale. His short stories, especially from that era, rely less on the voice and more on the image. In terms of appeal to 15 year old WOW players, I agree Wizard/ Knight is perfect.

On Oct 16, 2006, at 10:19 AM, peter heyneman wrote: In terms of translation to pure visuals, definitely. WK, like most of his books, has so much shifty narrator business and perspective-skewing mysterious detail-dropping that turning it into a movie would be almost impossible to do right--it'd lose much of its quality and become another dry Sword and Sorcery tale. His short stories, especially from that era, rely less on the voice and more on the image. In terms of appeal to 15 year old WOW players, I agree Wizard/ Knight is perfect.

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, David DiGiacomo wrote: I agree that The Death of Doctor Island is accessible in terms of understanding the plot, but I also find it to be one of Wolfe's most disturbing and offensive stories. I can't imagine what a mass audience would make of it.

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

On Monday 16 October 2006 13:38, David DiGiacomo wrote: Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

I was thinking the same thing. I mean there is some violence in there, but nothing more than you'd find in any of his other books. Heck, he had an executioner for a protaganist. So what did you find offensive David?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

Daniel D Jones wrote: On Monday 16 October 2006 13:38, David DiGiacomo wrote:

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

I was thinking the same thing. I mean there is some violence in there, but nothing more than you'd find in any of his other books. Heck, he had an executioner for a protaganist. So what did you find offensive David?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

Misogyny on the part of Wolfe or the part of characters in the story? If the former, I'm not sure what you're referring to, particularly if you take into account that the story was published in 1973. It would be a bit of an understatement to refer to Dr. Island's dismissal of Diane's murder as unimportant because it helped cure Ignacio as misogyny. I can certainly see why those events would be offensive, but that's part of what makes the story so forceful. But I don't think that describing offensive events makes a story itself offensive, unless you believe that the moral or theme of the story somehow supports or lauds those events.

David Duffy wrote: On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, David DiGiacomo wrote:

I agree that The Death of Doctor Island is accessible in terms of understanding the plot, but I also find it to be one of Wolfe's most disturbing and offensive stories. I can't imagine what a mass audience would make of it.

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

Well, A Boy and His Dog got made into a movie...

At 03:52 17/10/2006, Jeff Wilson wrote: Mez Smith was an equal member of The Committee, and Quilla is both a willing exploiter of her sex and the rescuer of the nominal hero. They also have the essential conversation about a non-men subject required for a sufficiently feminist film.

On Monday 16 October 2006 22:51, Jeff Wilson wrote: Daniel D Jones wrote:

On Monday 16 October 2006 13:38, David DiGiacomo wrote:

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

I was thinking the same thing. I mean there is some violence in there, but nothing more than you'd find in any of his other books. Heck, he had an executioner for a protaganist. So what did you find offensive David?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

Misogyny on the part of Wolfe or the part of characters in the story? If the former, I'm not sure what you're referring to, particularly if you take into account that the story was published in 1973. It would be a bit of an understatement to refer to Dr. Island's dismissal of Diane's murder as unimportant because it helped cure Ignacio as misogyny. I can certainly see why those events would be offensive, but that's part of what makes the story so forceful. But I don't think that describing offensive events makes a story itself offensive, unless you believe that the moral or theme of the story somehow supports or lauds those events.

It's just that Wolfe seems to be really fond of including misogynist characters and situations in his stories.

Daniel D Jones wrote: On Monday 16 October 2006 22:51, Jeff Wilson wrote:

Daniel D Jones wrote:

On Monday 16 October 2006 13:38, David DiGiacomo wrote:

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

I was thinking the same thing. I mean there is some violence in there, but nothing more than you'd find in any of his other books. Heck, he had an executioner for a protaganist. So what did you find offensive David?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

Misogyny on the part of Wolfe or the part of characters in the story? If the former, I'm not sure what you're referring to, particularly if you take into account that the story was published in 1973. It would be a bit of an understatement to refer to Dr. Island's dismissal of Diane's murder as unimportant because it helped cure Ignacio as misogyny. I can certainly see why those events would be offensive, but that's part of what makes the story so forceful. But I don't think that describing offensive events makes a story itself offensive, unless you believe that the moral or theme of the story somehow supports or lauds those events.

It's just that Wolfe seems to be really fond of including misogynist characters and situations in his stories.

And Sam Clemons was really fond of including racist characters and situations in his.

Mo Holkar / UKG wrote: At 03:52 17/10/2006, Jeff Wilson wrote:

Mez Smith was an equal member of The Committee, and Quilla is both a willing exploiter of her sex and the rescuer of the nominal hero. They also have the essential conversation about a non-men subject required for a sufficiently feminist film.

Mm, although I suspect that's in the category of "Last movie I went to see was Alien... the two women in it talk to each other about the monster."

On Tuesday 17 October 2006 11:59, Jeff Wilson wrote: Daniel D Jones wrote:

On Monday 16 October 2006 22:51, Jeff Wilson wrote:

Daniel D Jones wrote:

On Monday 16 October 2006 13:38, David DiGiacomo wrote:

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

I was thinking the same thing. I mean there is some violence in there, but nothing more than you'd find in any of his other books. Heck, he had an executioner for a protaganist. So what did you find offensive David?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

Misogyny on the part of Wolfe or the part of characters in the story? If the former, I'm not sure what you're referring to, particularly if you take into account that the story was published in 1973. It would be a bit of an understatement to refer to Dr. Island's dismissal of Diane's murder as unimportant because it helped cure Ignacio as misogyny. I can certainly see why those events would be offensive, but that's part of what makes the story so forceful. But I don't think that describing offensive events makes a story itself offensive, unless you believe that the moral or theme of the story somehow supports or lauds those events.

It's just that Wolfe seems to be really fond of including misogynist characters and situations in his stories.

And Sam Clemons was really fond of including racist characters and situations in his.

And he was himself an admitted and practicing racist.

Daniel D Jones wrote: On Tuesday 17 October 2006 11:59, Jeff Wilson wrote:

Daniel D Jones wrote:

On Monday 16 October 2006 22:51, Jeff Wilson wrote:

Daniel D Jones wrote:

On Monday 16 October 2006 13:38, David DiGiacomo wrote:

Care to expound on why you find it offensive?

I was thinking the same thing. I mean there is some violence in there, but nothing more than you'd find in any of his other books. Heck, he had an executioner for a protaganist. So what did you find offensive David?

Oh, blatant misogyny.

Misogyny on the part of Wolfe or the part of characters in the story? If the former, I'm not sure what you're referring to, particularly if you take into account that the story was published in 1973. It would be a bit of an understatement to refer to Dr. Island's dismissal of Diane's murder as unimportant because it helped cure Ignacio as misogyny. I can certainly see why those events would be offensive, but that's part of what makes the story so forceful. But I don't think that describing offensive events makes a story itself offensive, unless you believe that the moral or theme of the story somehow supports or lauds those events.

It's just that Wolfe seems to be really fond of including misogynist characters and situations in his stories.

And Sam Clemons was really fond of including racist characters and situations in his.

And he was himself an admitted and practicing racist.

Which, true or not, doesn't at all change the fact that his stories are powerful arguments against racism.

On Wednesday 18 October 2006 01:42, Jeff Wilson wrote: Daniel D Jones wrote:

On Tuesday 17 October 2006 11:59, Jeff Wilson wrote:

Daniel D Jones wrote:

It's just that Wolfe seems to be really fond of including misogynist characters and situations in his stories.

And Sam Clemons was really fond of including racist characters and situations in his.

And he was himself an admitted and practicing racist.

Which, true or not, doesn't at all change the fact that his stories are powerful arguments against racism.

I agree, I was just playing along with the red herring theme. Twain wrote about his own society, in which esentially everyone was a racist, largely in a time when racism was enshrined as a divinely and legally ordained fact of life, so of course there were lots of racist characters and situations. Wolfe doesn't have this excuse, not that he really needs one.

Daniel D Jones wrote: On Wednesday 18 October 2006 01:42, Jeff Wilson wrote:

Daniel D Jones wrote:

On Tuesday 17 October 2006 11:59, Jeff Wilson wrote:

Daniel D Jones wrote:

It's just that Wolfe seems to be really fond of including misogynist characters and situations in his stories.

And Sam Clemons was really fond of including racist characters and situations in his.

And he was himself an admitted and practicing racist.

Which, true or not, doesn't at all change the fact that his stories are powerful arguments against racism.

I agree, I was just playing along with the red herring theme. Twain wrote about his own society, in which esentially everyone was a racist, largely in a time when racism was enshrined as a divinely and legally ordained fact of life, so of course there were lots of racist characters and situations. Wolfe doesn't have this excuse, not that he really needs one.

The Death of Doctor Island was published in 1973. You don't think misogyny was common then? Wolfe may use fictional environments but that doesn't at all mean that his works don't contain lessons and commentary applicable to the real one.