{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4769", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4769, "subject": "Soldier of Sidon [possible spoiler]", "messages": 7, "voices": 7, "first": "2006-11-15T22:16:05+00:00", "last": "2007-07-16T20:52:49+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Crossley", "address": "ishmael at drizzle.com" }, "date": "2006-11-15T22:16:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon [possible spoiler]", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This may qualify as a [SPOILER] for anyone who hasn't finished reading the\nlatest Latro, but I must admit that I was slightly disappointed that SoS\ndoesn't even hint at closure. I know that this is more a function of\npublishing practices than Wolfe's own desire to cruelly tweak his readers\n(or is it?) but I'd appreciate knowing when we might expect to see the\n\"completion\" of the series. I wouldn't mind reading another installment or\ntwo, but I hope he's not planning to make Latro a literary decathlete.\n\nBy the way, what outlets have covered the book so far? After a quick web\nsearch, I found reviews at scifi.com and on a couple of blogs. Any\nmainstream mentions yet?\n\nJames" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew DeLuca", "address": "deluca22 at tcnj.edu" }, "date": "2006-11-15T22:44:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon [possible spoiler]", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Nov 15, 2006, at 5:16 PM, James Crossley wrote:\nThis may qualify as a [SPOILER] for anyone who hasn't finished \nreading the\nlatest Latro, but I must admit that I was slightly disappointed \nthat SoS\ndoesn't even hint at closure. I know that this is more a function of\npublishing practices than Wolfe's own desire to cruelly tweak his \nreaders\n(or is it?) but I'd appreciate knowing when we might expect to see the\n\"completion\" of the series. I wouldn't mind reading another \ninstallment or\ntwo, but I hope he's not planning to make Latro a literary decathlete.\n\nBy the way, what outlets have covered the book so far? After a \nquick web\nsearch, I found reviews at scifi.com and on a couple of blogs. Any\nmainstream mentions yet?\n\nJames\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2007-04-05T07:19:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This list seems to have been a bit quiet lately on Soldier, so I'll add in \nsome half digested thoughts about the scroll. A few spoilers\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe prophecy that Latro is given from the temple of Ap-uat says he (as\ndeath's hero) is to receive the shield of Hemuset.\n\nThotmaktef says that Hemuset is the goddess of fate, a minor goddess who\ndecrees the fate of the person at birth. She carries a small shield with an\narrow on it. The shield is often worn on her head, and reflects a man's entire\nlife.\n\nI read, however, the following in the description of an Egyptian painting:\n\n\"At a first glance the supporting goddesses seem to\n Neith and Selket who frequently appear together in the Egyptian\n religion as protective deities (e.g. on sarcophagi or canopic chests).\n The just discernible shield with the crossed arrows on the head can\n point to Neith as well as to Hemuset (s). Brunner described Hemusets as\n female geniuses, the counterparts of the male Kas, who are involved in\n procreation or keeping-up life. According to the accompanying texts the\n figures represent Hemusets.\"\n\nNeith carries a shield and crossed arrows, and by Roman times was said to \nbe an *upper Egyptian* creator-goddess who had settled in Sais, where her \ntemple received revenue from the Greek trading settlement at Naukratis. \nShe was also worshipped as a \"Great Cow\", and thus is confused/overlaps \nwith Hathor (who wears a sun disk on her head).\n\nThe most critical details, I think, are that Neith is/was a consort of \nSet, and the Greeks identified her with Athena. (They identified Set as \nTyphon BTW).\n\nSo does the scroll involve a relationship between Neith and Set? Is he \ncollecting old love letters? Who is the old god guarding the scroll then? \nThe best match I could find was Hapy. He is the god of the inundation, \nand is a pot-bellied bearded man with pendulous breasts. That doesn't \nmake much sense to me.\n\nDavid Duffy." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nigel Price", "address": "nigelprice at onetel.net" }, "date": "2007-06-29T22:08:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm still reading \"Soldier of Sidon\" having just reread \"Mist\" and \"Arete\".\nI hope to review it for \"Ultan's Library\". I'm enjoying it very much but\ntend to agree that it seems to lack the depth of the other two Soldier\nnovels and of Wolfe's work in general.\n\nOne obvious difference between \"Sidon\" and the other two Soldier novels is\nthe lack of a specific historical narrative. \"Mist\" and \"Arete\" are\nremarkable in that they combine a story of gods and goddesses with a very\nspecific historical context, namely the aftermath of the Persian invasion.\nThese books do for ancient Greek history what the Greeks themselves did for\ntheir pre-historical age of myth. I guess that Wolfe's approach is not\nunprecedented, but it is unusual and makes the two novels a fascinating\nhybrid of fantasy and historical novel.\n\nWhile I'm sure that the depiction of life in Egypt and Nubia given in\n\"Soldier of Sidon\" is well researched and historically accurate, the novel's\nnarrative does not depend on an understanding of any actual historical\nevents beyond a generalised knowledge of Egypt's gradual decline in power\nand its domination by the Persian Empire.\n\nThis lack of a specific historical narrative is one obvious way in which\n\"Sidon\" is simpler than its predecessors.\n\nI need to think more about all this before I write my review...\n\nAt the moment, the question that is occupying me is, \"What makes\nLatro/Lucius different from other fantasy heroes?\" Or, to put it another\nway, \"Is Latro a Lupine Conan the Barbarian?\"\n\nIn many ways, Latro is a classic (as well as a Classical!) super hero. He\nhas super powers: he can see the gods, he's a superb warrior, and he's\npretty well irresistible to women. He has a crucial vulnerability: he\nforgets everything. He swashbuckles his way round the ancient world,\nfighting battles, getting into dangerous scrapes, tangling with the purposes\nof the gods and bedding exotic women (Amazons, Egyptian dancing girls!) as\nhe goes.\n\nOn this last point, Wolfe has devised a wonderful strategem to surmount the\nproblem of how you have a basically good and morally upright hero who still\nhas lots of love affairs. He forgets, so of course he is not culpable even\nthough he serially unfaithful to his wife back in Italy!\n\nI also like the way that Latro manages to be a wish-fulfilment figure for\nhis author in that he is both a super-soldier and, of necessity, a copious\nwriter, writing feverishly nearly every day, just like his creator...\n\nMore anon!\n\nNigel" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Transentient", "address": "transentient at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-07-13T03:58:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jun 29, 2007, at 6:08 PM, Nigel Price wrote:\n\n\nOn this last point, Wolfe has devised a wonderful strategem to \nsurmount the\nproblem of how you have a basically good and morally upright hero \nwho still\nhas lots of love affairs. He forgets, so of course he is not \nculpable even\nthough he serially unfaithful to his wife back in Italy!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I find it interesting how Latro seemed quite a bit less piteous in \nSidon due to the fact that he was monogamous (well, polygamous, but \nin the actually matrimonial sense and not just sleeping around like a \nrake). At least during the part of the book that followed the river, \nwhen things were going comparatively smoothly for him." } ] }, { "message_id": "<469B8E05.8090208@mindspring.com>", "from": { "name": "Henry Eissler", "address": "henryeissleriii at mindspring.com" }, "date": "2007-07-16T15:25:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Transentient wrote:\nOn this last point, Wolfe has devised a wonderful strategem to \nsurmount the\nproblem of how you have a basically good and morally upright hero \nwho still\nhas lots of love affairs. He forgets, so of course he is not \nculpable even\nthough he serially unfaithful to his wife back in Italy!\n\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I find it interesting how Latro seemed quite a bit less piteous in \nSidon due to the fact that he was monogamous (well, polygamous, but \nin the actually matrimonial sense and not just sleeping around like a \nrake). At least during the part of the book that followed the river, \nwhen things were going comparatively smoothly for him.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I also noticed that Latro seemed much happier through most of this \njourney, but it struck me more as a reflection on how much he had \ndisliked the \"strategem loving\" Hellenes, but admired the people of Kemet." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "mfstraight at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-07-16T20:52:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Soldier of Sidon", "in_reply_to": "<469B8E05.8090208@mindspring.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/16/07, Henry Eissler wrote:\nI also noticed that Latro seemed much happier through most of this\njourney, but it struck me more as a reflection on how much he had\ndisliked the \"strategem loving\" Hellenes, but admired the people of Kemet." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It also helps that most of the Egyptians (for most of that trip up the\nNile) were treating him with respect and not as a slave.\n\nI was going to make a similar comment myself. I'll have to re-read\nthe book before I have anything substantial to say about it, but one\nthing that stuck out for me is that I enjoyed seeing Latro so happy on\nhis journey up the Nile. I guess I really like the character.\n\nRostrum" } ] } ] }