{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4775", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4775, "subject": "Confussion about Sev/Pas/Silk/Typhon/Able", "messages": 4, "voices": 3, "first": "2006-11-29T05:37:53+00:00", "last": "2006-11-30T04:59:24+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Dale", "address": "undergod_13 at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2006-11-29T05:37:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confussion about Sev/Pas/Silk/Typhon/Able", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have read through the archive since its begining (only reading the \narticles that appeard appealing which was about 1/10 of them) which took me \nabout oh... 5 hours.\n\nNow here are some questions about some theories I read, and current theories \nthat I want put to rest:\n\n\n1) Who exactly is the father and mother of Severain?\n - Is he a clone of Typhon (I doubt it)\n - Its a better bet that he is a child of one of the Masters of the Order \nfor Truth and Penance\n - My favorite theory is that by the time he starts writting tBotNS that \nhis memory has utterly been decimated by having multiple personaliites and \nthe memories of countless Autarchs crammed into his head... and thus what he \ncan remember of his past is a mixture of all the Autarchs memories \n(expecially about his childhood)... which would explain why his memory of \nhis childhood is actually very similar to Ymar the first Autarch. This is \nalso the least plausable\n\nNext question\n\n2) What exactly is special about Silk's DNA?\n - Is he a clone of Typhon\n - Is he a clone of Severain (Silk is a member of the Order for Truth and \nPenance... and Typhon did have access to Severain's DNA after his guards \nroughed him up some...)\n - Maybe he is just genetically supperior... Perhaps Tussah could have \nleft a better hint... if only his will had said \"I want this kid that I \nfound in a test tube labelled [Prophet/Conciliator that Escaped Typhon's \nPalace]\"\n\nIt wouldn't be too far fetched to assume that Typhon added Severain to the \nlist of embrios after being impressed with his disappearing act.\n\nNext Question\n\n3) Remora once talks to Queztal about the Garden of Eve it seems... how far \ninto the future is it when the Whorl is launched? Exactly what major \ncatastrophes have happend before then (poles flipped... flooding... sun \ndeath)\n\nFinal Question (from The Wizard)\n\n4) Able's dreams are from people that are dying... is he really just a \ncreation of the Aelf that took hold of the first death dream it had from \nParkas String?\n\n\n\n\n\nNow to respond to some things I read:\n\n1) Why did Typhon make then Whorl with STL tech (which it clearly is seeing \nthat it slowly is leaving viewable sight at the end of tBotSS) when he \nshould have FTL travel (IE Heiroducle and the fact that he has an \nintergalactic empire in his days)\n\nI can think of three easy solutions to this\n\nA) The Whorl is simply too big to use FTL drives with the ammount of energy \navaliable\n\nB) Typhon did not build the Heiroducle (sp) nor any other ships he might \npossess with FTL capabilites... rather he aquired them by trading with \nCaogens (not necissarily any even spoken of in the book although the names \nof the ships suggest it)...\n\nC) I know when I am Empire of my universe I am not going to allow my \ncolonies to learn the secrets of FTL drives by reverse engineering my \nspaceships! Thus leading towards their independance allowing them to develop \ntogether along with spawning more colonies... eventually leading to a \nrebellion and my ousting as a leader.\n\n\n\n2) Why are no Chems around in Severain's day, and even in Typhons day? Why \ndidn't Typhon just download into one?\n\nI would imagine androids are fairly rare outside of military installations \nand government centers in the days of Typhon. Typhon would never download \ninto an android since that would be the end of his OWN existance... just \nimagine that if I was to say you can live forever as a simulation on your \ncomputer... but you have to die right now... I bet you wouldnt like that \nsolution. Why are Typhons Guards human? Perhaps just a carry over of \ntradition... or just a symbol of power... nastagia... so on\n\nHowever if I was Typhon I would just clone myself, lob off New Typhons head \nand tie myself right on (of course in a very complex surgury)... however is \nthe body that important too you? Expecially since Typhon was probably just \nsome Nerdy kid body before? Why not just get a strong guy and take over his \nbody? Seems reasonable... except I would have gone for a martial artist... \nheck ya Bruce Lee..." } ] }, { "message_id": "<309058.56630.qm@web86008.mail.ird.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "ALEX GREENBERG", "address": "agreenberg at btinternet.com" }, "date": "2006-11-30T00:00:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confussion about Sev/Pas/Silk/Typhon/Able", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've always felt there was a hint of \"Thomas Covenant morbidity\" in Able - especially the ambulance dream. \n \n Doesn't answer your question, but anyway.\n\nMichael Dale wrote:\n I have read through the archive since its begining (only reading the \narticles that appeard appealing which was about 1/10 of them) which took me \nabout oh... 5 hours.\n\nNow here are some questions about some theories I read, and current theories \nthat I want put to rest:\n\n\n1) Who exactly is the father and mother of Severain?\n- Is he a clone of Typhon (I doubt it)\n- Its a better bet that he is a child of one of the Masters of the Order \nfor Truth and Penance\n- My favorite theory is that by the time he starts writting tBotNS that \nhis memory has utterly been decimated by having multiple personaliites and \nthe memories of countless Autarchs crammed into his head... and thus what he \ncan remember of his past is a mixture of all the Autarchs memories \n(expecially about his childhood)... which would explain why his memory of \nhis childhood is actually very similar to Ymar the first Autarch. This is \nalso the least plausable\n\nNext question\n\n2) What exactly is special about Silk's DNA?\n- Is he a clone of Typhon\n- Is he a clone of Severain (Silk is a member of the Order for Truth and \nPenance... and Typhon did have access to Severain's DNA after his guards \nroughed him up some...)\n- Maybe he is just genetically supperior... Perhaps Tussah could have \nleft a better hint... if only his will had said \"I want this kid that I \nfound in a test tube labelled [Prophet/Conciliator that Escaped Typhon's \nPalace]\"\n\nIt wouldn't be too far fetched to assume that Typhon added Severain to the \nlist of embrios after being impressed with his disappearing act.\n\nNext Question\n\n3) Remora once talks to Queztal about the Garden of Eve it seems... how far \ninto the future is it when the Whorl is launched? Exactly what major \ncatastrophes have happend before then (poles flipped... flooding... sun \ndeath)\n\nFinal Question (from The Wizard)\n\n4) Able's dreams are from people that are dying... is he really just a \ncreation of the Aelf that took hold of the first death dream it had from \nParkas String?\n\n\n\n\n\nNow to respond to some things I read:\n\n1) Why did Typhon make then Whorl with STL tech (which it clearly is seeing \nthat it slowly is leaving viewable sight at the end of tBotSS) when he \nshould have FTL travel (IE Heiroducle and the fact that he has an \nintergalactic empire in his days)\n\nI can think of three easy solutions to this\n\nA) The Whorl is simply too big to use FTL drives with the ammount of energy \navaliable\n\nB) Typhon did not build the Heiroducle (sp) nor any other ships he might \npossess with FTL capabilites... rather he aquired them by trading with \nCaogens (not necissarily any even spoken of in the book although the names \nof the ships suggest it)...\n\nC) I know when I am Empire of my universe I am not going to allow my \ncolonies to learn the secrets of FTL drives by reverse engineering my \nspaceships! Thus leading towards their independance allowing them to develop \ntogether along with spawning more colonies... eventually leading to a \nrebellion and my ousting as a leader.\n\n\n\n2) Why are no Chems around in Severain's day, and even in Typhons day? Why \ndidn't Typhon just download into one?\n\nI would imagine androids are fairly rare outside of military installations \nand government centers in the days of Typhon. Typhon would never download \ninto an android since that would be the end of his OWN existance... just \nimagine that if I was to say you can live forever as a simulation on your \ncomputer... but you have to die right now... I bet you wouldnt like that \nsolution. Why are Typhons Guards human? Perhaps just a carry over of \ntradition... or just a symbol of power... nastagia... so on\n\nHowever if I was Typhon I would just clone myself, lob off New Typhons head \nand tie myself right on (of course in a very complex surgury)... however is \nthe body that important too you? Expecially since Typhon was probably just \nsome Nerdy kid body before? Why not just get a strong guy and take over his \nbody? Seems reasonable... except I would have gone for a martial artist... \nheck ya Bruce Lee..." } ] }, { "message_id": "<25925570.1164862446963.JavaMail.root@fed1wml04.mgt.cox.net>", "from": { "name": "aramini1 at cox.net", "address": "aramini1 at cox.net" }, "date": "2006-11-30T04:54:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confussion about Sev/Pas/Silk/Typhon/Able", "in_reply_to": "<309058.56630.qm@web86008.mail.ird.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I won't go into many of your questions, but I am confident Silk is Typhon's biological son, with Kypris/Mamelta his mother. In the tunnels, he vows he won't sleep until his mother comes. Than he runs into Mamelta and awakens her. There are only a few characters in the text with blue eyes. Mamelta, Kypris' image, and Silk are the important ones. There are several other hints that Mamelta is the original Kypris, w hich I posted long ago here somewhere.\n\nOne of the most bizarre scenes in the book involves Silk catching a glimpse of mamelta's genitals as she scales the ladder, then he thinks about mankind's origin among the stars. Whether he is a clone or not, I'd need to re-read long sun with that in mind.\n \nWhat blows my mind is why Severian's face can be found in Typhon's tomb where he lays Scylla to rest, if indeed that is the tomb he plays in during his youth in Shadow of the torturer. I can't figure out his relationship to Typhon, but certainly the light hair of silk and the dark hair of severian preclude them from being closer than brothers genetically (ie - they aren't clones of each other).\n\n\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "<22830314.1164862764350.JavaMail.root@fed1wml04.mgt.cox.net>", "from": { "name": "aramini1 at cox.net", "address": "aramini1 at cox.net" }, "date": "2006-11-30T04:59:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confussion about Sev/Pas/Silk/Typhon/Able", "in_reply_to": "<25925570.1164862446963.JavaMail.root@fed1wml04.mgt.cox.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Why not just get a strong guy and take over his " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "body? Seems reasonable... except I would have gone for a martial artist... \nheck ya Bruce Lee..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Incidentally, on a non-gene tangent, Bruce Lee was my Halloween outfit this year due to some similarities in size and physique. check it out if you're a Bruce fan and tell me what you think.\n\nhttp://myspace-269.vo.llnwd.net/01353/96/22/1353372269_l.jpg\n\nmarc aramini" } ] } ] }