# The Soundtrack *The Urth list — 43 messages, 23 voices, 09 Apr 2007* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Mark Lewin *09 Apr 2007, 23:14* I doubt if if anyone on this list disagrees with me that none of GW's books would make a good film. What ... you do? Which one? And if you don't (or even if you do) what would make a good soundtrack? Which film? Which track? And ... in the absence of any films, what do you like to listen to when you read GW? Me: Necromancer by Rush. Anything by Godspeed You Black Emporer! Grendel by Marillion What about you? M --- ### Matthew DeLuca *09 Apr 2007, 23:16 · follows Mark Lewin* WizardKnight could be a decent movie. And some of his short stories could be turned into some decent films. Even the Latro books could be good -----Original Message----- From: "Mark Lewin" To: "urth at lists.urth.net" Sent: 4/9/2007 7:14 PM Subject: (urth) The Soundtrack I doubt if if anyone on this list disagrees with me that none of GW's books would make a good film. What ... you do? Which one? And if you don't (or even if you do) what would make a good soundtrack? Which film? Which track? And ... in the absence of any films, what do you like to listen to when you read GW? Me: Necromancer by Rush. Anything by Godspeed You Black Emporer! Grendel by Marillion What about you? M --- ### James B. Jordan *09 Apr 2007, 23:19 · in reply to Mark Lewin* > At 06:14 PM 4/9/2007, you wrote: > And ... in the absence of any films, what do you like to listen to > when you read GW? The symphonies of Allan Pettersson. Nutria James B. Jordan Director, Biblical Horizons Box 1096 Niceville, FL 32588 http://www.biblicalhorizons.com --- ### Mark Lewin *09 Apr 2007, 23:21 · in reply to James B. Jordan* Interesting .. the Swedish guy? I think I heard something wonderful from him once, but I'd have to check my sources. Anyone else? > On 10/04/07, James B. Jordan wrote: > > At 06:14 PM 4/9/2007, you wrote: > > And ... in the absence of any films, what do you like to listen to when > you read GW? > > > The symphonies of Allan Pettersson. > > Nutria > > > James B. Jordan > Director, Biblical Horizons > Box 1096 > Niceville, FL 32588 > http://www.biblicalhorizons.com > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Recursive Loop *09 Apr 2007, 23:25 · in reply to Matthew DeLuca* Greetings: Wizard-Knight would work. Latro would work. Urth, etc., maybe not. As for music... Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer and a few other composers that mostly work in film would be good. What do I listen to when I read Wolfe? It depends. Steve Roach. Robert Rich. Tangerine Dream. Many others. I have a bigger "soundtrack" when I read my main obsession (Patrick O'Brian). Fred Kiesche --- ### Matthew DeLuca *09 Apr 2007, 23:26 · follows Recursive Loop* Explosions in the sky Mogwai Sigur Ros Dredg Dreamtheater -----Original Message----- From: "Mark Lewin" To: "The Urth Mailing List" Sent: 4/9/2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: (urth) The Soundtrack Interesting .. the Swedish guy? I think I heard something wonderful from him once, but I'd have to check my sources. Anyone else? > On 10/04/07, James B. Jordan wrote: > > At 06:14 PM 4/9/2007, you wrote: > > And ... in the absence of any films, what do you like to listen to when > you read GW? > > > The symphonies of Allan Pettersson. > > Nutria > > > James B. Jordan > Director, Biblical Horizons > Box 1096 > Niceville, FL 32588 > http://www.biblicalhorizons.com > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Mark Lewin *09 Apr 2007, 23:28 · in reply to Recursive Loop* Are we getting too off-list if I ask you what you listen to when you read POB? Getting back on-list: is there any overlap between what you listen to reading POB and GW? M > On 10/04/07, Recursive Loop wrote: > > Greetings: > > Wizard-Knight would work. Latro would work. Urth, etc., maybe not. > > As for music... > > Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer and a few other composers that mostly work in > film would be good. > > What do I listen to when I read Wolfe? It depends. Steve Roach. Robert > Rich. Tangerine Dream. Many > others. > > I have a bigger "soundtrack" when I read my main obsession (Patrick > O'Brian). > > Fred Kiesche > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ > _______________________________________________ --- ### Mark Lewin *09 Apr 2007, 23:30 · in reply to Recursive Loop* That's quite a selection. And I can see the merit in all those artists. Are they all artists you would listen to anyway? Any specific to GW? > On 10/04/07, Recursive Loop wrote: > > > > Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer and a few other composers that mostly work in > film would be good. > > What do I listen to when I read Wolfe? It depends. Steve Roach. Robert > Rich. Tangerine Dream. > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ > _______________________________________________ --- ### Dan'l Danehy-Oakes *09 Apr 2007, 23:32 · in reply to Mark Lewin* H'mmm. I don't generally listen to music while reading, and especially while reading something (like Wolfe) that deserves my full attention. But soundtrack music for a film/series of films? H'mm: Operation Ares -- Bernhard Herrmann The Fifth Head of Cerberus -- Godspeed You! Black Emperor The Devil in a Forest -- Danny Elfman The Book o'the New Sun -- *Definitely* Bernhard Herrmann The Soldier books -- H'mm, that's hard. Maybe someone like John Cage or George Crumb. Castleview -- Mark Knopfler, in "Local Hero" mode. Pandora, by Holly Hollander -- Kate Bush The Books of the Long/Short Sun -- Ennio Morricone The Wizard Knight -- Blackmore's Night (or Enya at a long shot) "The Island of Doctor Death" and Other Stories -- John Williams (think about it) The Death of Doctor Island -- Peter Gabriel That should be enough, no? ``` Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant ----- http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer http://www.danehyoakes.com Soon, where Toon Town once stood will be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful. ``` --- ### Dan'l Danehy-Oakes *09 Apr 2007, 23:33 · in reply to Matthew DeLuca* Sigur Ros is a *great* choice. But Dream Theater? Wolfe so does *not* go with metal... > On 4/9/07, Matthew DeLuca wrote: > Explosions in the sky > Mogwai > Sigur Ros > Dredg > Dreamtheater > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mark Lewin" > To: "The Urth Mailing List" > Sent: 4/9/2007 7:21 PM > Subject: Re: (urth) The Soundtrack > > Interesting .. the Swedish guy? I think I heard something wonderful from > him once, but I'd have to check my sources. > > Anyone else? > > On 10/04/07, James B. Jordan wrote: >> At 06:14 PM 4/9/2007, you wrote: >> >> And ... in the absence of any films, what do you like to listen to when >> you read GW? >> >> >> The symphonies of Allan Pettersson. >> >> Nutria >> >> >> James B. Jordan >> Director, Biblical Horizons >> Box 1096 >> Niceville, FL 32588 >> http://www.biblicalhorizons.com >> >> _______________________________________________ --- ### Mark Lewin *10 Apr 2007, 00:17 · in reply to Dan'l Danehy-Oakes* Thanks guys - an awesome response. Dan'l came up with some excellent music - but I'm not sure I would have agreed with any of those as a background to GW. Why? I don't know. Like Dan'l said: reading GW demands one's full attention. But, there are certain tracks I *can* listen to and still give the lupine one 100%. Maybe because I've heard them so often I can almost 'switch off'? Dunno. Maybe I should have been a bit more specific. What - if anything - was going through your head towards the end of the book "Urth of the New Sun" ? For me: "East Hastings, by Godspeed You Black Emporer" There are no *right* answers people.... so please chip in with your personal faves :-) M I totall PS Sigur Ros - You are preaching to the converted! --- ### Mark Lewin *10 Apr 2007, 00:20 · in reply to Mark Lewin* Oh: Death of Doctor Island. Definitely, definitely, "Herod", by Mogwai. And I did think about John Williams for 'Island of Dr Death'. :-) M > On 10/04/07, Mark Lewin wrote: > > Thanks guys - an awesome response. > > Dan'l came up with some excellent music - but I'm not sure I would have > agreed with any of those as a background to GW. > > Why? I don't know. Like Dan'l said: reading GW demands one's full > attention. > > But, there are certain tracks I *can* listen to and still give the lupine > one 100%. > > Maybe because I've heard them so often I can almost 'switch off'? > > Dunno. > > Maybe I should have been a bit more specific. What - if anything - was > going through your head towards the end of the book "Urth of the New Sun" ? > > For me: "East Hastings, by Godspeed You Black Emporer" > > There are no *right* answers people.... so please chip in with your > personal faves :-) > > M > > I totall > > PS Sigur Ros - You are preaching to the converted! --- ### Recursive Loop *10 Apr 2007, 00:27 · in reply to Mark Lewin* Greetings: "Are we getting too off-list if I ask you what you listen to when you read POB?" My jumping off point was a combination of the soundtrack to the fillum (Master & Commander: The Far Side of the World), plus a couple of albums with titles like "Music in the Captain's Cabin". Toss in a couple of vocal albums of traditional sea songs ("Spanish Ladies"). From there, add Vivaldi, Mozart, Boccherini, anybody else from the period. Keep the pieces centered around duets, trios, quartets, quintets and the like. Shake well and stir. "Getting back on-list: is there any overlap between what you listen to reading POB and GW?" Not really. To get into the mood for something like Latro I might listen to music that is inspired by the Ancient World. For example, "The Pines of Rome" or "The Fountains of Rome" or maybe "Ancient Airs and Dances". But as other posters have pointed out, Wolfe requires a differently engaged reader than O'Brian. So I more tend not to listen to music with an author like Wolfe. Fred Kiesche --- ### Recursive Loop *10 Apr 2007, 00:32 · in reply to Mark Lewin* Greetings: "That's quite a selection. And I can see the merit in all those artists. "Are they all artists you would listen to anyway? Any specific to GW?" They are all folks I listen to anyway. I've been listening to Tangerine Dream since 1976 or thereabouts. Rich, Roach, etc., all grew out of those interests. Zimmer ,Shore and others grew out of watching movies. Every now and again I find a soundtrack that will work for me without the movie. With Zimmer it was his soundtrack to "Blackhawk Down". With Shore it was his work for the "Lord of the Rings" movies. So I guess Shore would be about as "specific to GW" as I could get, given Wolfe's love of the Trilogy. Thinking on it, I probably listen to music less with Wolfe than some other authors. And the one soundtrack that I totally have cut out is television. I cannot read and have a television in the room. If my wife or daughter watches something, I leave the room. It irks my wife, somewhat, but I tell her I need less intrusive noise when I am reading! Fred Kiesche --- ### Recursive Loop *10 Apr 2007, 00:44 · in reply to Mark Lewin* Greetings: For me, it sometimes takes a long time to find music that fits a particular author, or a particular action. Sometimes it happens by accident and is so perfect it is scary. In particular I think of Steve Roach's album "The Magnificent Void". I put a bunch of his stuff on mini-discs (remember those?) and brought them observing with my telescope once. What an experience. I thought I was falling into the telescope and merging with the globular clusters that I was observing. I've rarely experienced such intensity when listening to music. Some music (e.g., King Crimson, Dire Straits) have become "road music" for me. My parent's live about four hours away, and with my father's rapidly declining health I'm on the road to visit a lot. I either listen to a Patrick O'Brian book on CD or play "Brothers in Arms" (Dire Straits), various King Crimson albums, Yes, etc. (Folks like Roach and Rich and a few others are dangerous on the road. They can lead to self-hypnosis, especially in wild weather, heavy snow and the like!) Fred Kiesche --- ### Mark Lewin *10 Apr 2007, 01:28 · in reply to Recursive Loop* So very, very, interesting. I've always looked back upon various moments of my life and had the soundtrack to match. All my favourite books have been accompanied by a soundtrack, of sorts. But I'm a latecomer to GW. (At the venerable age of 37.) And, I'll be honest ... I've never encountered an author who didn't *immediately* give themself to some form of musical accompinment .... until GW. I've thought of a few relevant tracks (as aforementioned). But none with any conviction. And there are lots of other authors (Vance, Moorcock, Leiber, Lovecraft, Ashton-Smith, Avram Davidson, etc) that lend themselves very well to some form of accompaniment. But not Wolfe. > On 10/04/07, Recursive Loop wrote: > > Greetings: > > For me, it sometimes takes a long time to find music that fits a > particular author, or a > particular action. Sometimes it happens by accident and is so perfect it > is scary. > > In particular I think of Steve Roach's album "The Magnificent Void". I put > a bunch of his stuff on > mini-discs (remember those?) and brought them observing with my telescope > once. > > What an experience. I thought I was falling into the telescope and merging > with the globular > clusters that I was observing. I've rarely experienced such intensity when > listening to music. > > Some music (e.g., King Crimson, Dire Straits) have become "road music" for > me. My parent's live > about four hours away, and with my father's rapidly declining health I'm > on the road to visit a > lot. I either listen to a Patrick O'Brian book on CD or play "Brothers in > Arms" (Dire Straits), > various King Crimson albums, Yes, etc. > > (Folks like Roach and Rich and a few others are dangerous on the road. > They can lead to > self-hypnosis, especially in wild weather, heavy snow and the like!) > > Fred Kiesche > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ > _______________________________________________ --- ### Sarah Dorrance-Minch *10 Apr 2007, 01:34 · in reply to Mark Lewin* Mark Lewin wrote: And ... in the absence of any films, what do you like to listen to when you read GW? Philip Glass. Gorecki. Michael Nyman. Prokofiev's soundtrack to Alexander Nevsky. Toto's soundtrack to DUNE. Russian Orthodox chants. Tangerine Dream. Dead Can Dance. Peter Gabriel. Diamanda Galas. And when I don't mind a little cognitive dissonance, Kate Bush or the Moody Blues. When I don't mind a lot of cognitive dissonance, The Beach Boys, Michael Longcor, or Steeleye Span. Sarah Dorrance-Minch (in SCA, THL Isobel Wren, called "Midori") Mother to Sophie (10/28/02), Liesl (5/17/04) and Kassandra (4/1/07) and militant lactivist dairy queen. I should wear a cowbell. In a dark time, the eye begins to see --- ### James B. Jordan *10 Apr 2007, 01:36 · in reply to Mark Lewin* > At 08:28 PM 4/9/2007, you wrote: > So very, very, interesting. > > I've always looked back upon various moments of my life and had the > soundtrack to match. All my favourite books have been accompanied > by a soundtrack, of sorts. > > But I'm a latecomer to GW. (At the venerable age of 37.) > > And, I'll be honest ... I've never encountered an author who didn't > *immediately* give themself to some form of musical accompinment .... until GW. BTW, if you want to get into Pettersson's heavy, dark, brooding, music, start with Symphony 8 and then go to #9. It's dire music, of the classical sort of course, but very Severianesque. For something more joyous then turn to his 2nd Violin Concerto, which gives you 30 minutes of horror followed by 15 minutes of light (Jesus!) conquering horror. > I've thought of a few relevant tracks (as aforementioned). But none > with any conviction. And there are lots of other authors (Vance, Yes, well, with the glorious Vance you need something classical: Mozart or Haydn. Not the brooding romanticism Wolfe requires. Of course, I show my age and prejudice in these "classical" recommendations!! The Nutricious Nutria James B. Jordan Director, Biblical Horizons Box 1096 Niceville, FL 32588 http://www.biblicalhorizons.com --- ### James Crossley *10 Apr 2007, 02:04 · in reply to Mark Lewin* > On 4/9/07 6:28 PM, "Mark Lewin" wrote: > So very, very, interesting. > > I've always looked back upon various moments of my life and had the soundtrack > to match. All my favourite books have been accompanied by a soundtrack, of > sorts. > > But I'm a latecomer to GW. (At the venerable age of 37.) > > And, I'll be honest ... I've never encountered an author who didn't > *immediately* give themself to some form of musical accompinment .... until > GW. > > I've thought of a few relevant tracks (as aforementioned). But none with any > conviction. And there are lots of other authors (Vance, Moorcock, Leiber, > Lovecraft, Ashton-Smith, Avram Davidson, etc) that lend themselves very well > to some form of accompaniment. > > But not Wolfe. Which artists provide good accompaniment to Avram Davidson, may I ask? And while I’m going off topic, does anyone on the list know the status of Eileen Gunn’s Davidson biography? I’ve heard it’s in the works, but I don’t know if that means we can expect it next year or a decade from now. James --- ### Mark Lewin *10 Apr 2007, 02:07 · in reply to James Crossley* > On 10/04/07, James Crossley wrote: > > On 4/9/07 6:28 PM, "Mark Lewin" wrote: > > Which artists provide good accompaniment to Avram Davidson, may I ask? No definitive answer, of course. But, how about David Tibet ? --- ### Batrinque at aol.com *10 Apr 2007, 10:20 · follows Mark Lewin* In a message dated 4/9/2007 8:33:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, recursive_loop at yahoo.com writes: Thinking on it, I probably listen to music less with Wolfe than some other authors. I seldom listen to music when reading. I know I have occasionally listened to some period music -- Bach, Corelli, and so forth -- while reading O'Brian, but perhaps more because my tastes run in that direction than to provide a relevant "soundtrack". And I think music might be a distraction when reading Wolfe, who demands more of my attention than any other author of my acquaintance. The only recordings that I can think of that might tempt me as Wolfian background music are the solo piano improvisations of Keith Jarrett, being appropriately both solitary and intricate. And the one soundtrack that I totally have cut out is television. I cannot read and have a television in the room. If my wife or daughter watches something, I leave the room. It irks my wife, somewhat, but I tell her I need less intrusive noise when I am reading! I find that I can/do seldom watch TV without a book at hand (although, usually something less demanding than Wolfe), the book providing relief from the television rather than the TV disrupting my reading. Bruce Trinque Amston, CT --- ### Daniel D Jones *10 Apr 2007, 11:55 · in reply to Mark Lewin* > On Monday 09 April 2007 19:14, Mark Lewin wrote: > I doubt if if anyone on this list disagrees with me that none of GW's books > would make a good film. > > What ... you do? Which one? That depends a great deal on precisely what you mean when you say "...a good film." I think most people would agree that TBOTNS wouldn't _translate_ well to film. It would be impossible to capture a great deal of what makes that series work in a visual medium. However, that's not at all the same thing as saying that TBOTNS would not make a good film. With the correct choice of screen writer and director, it could make a good film. But the film wouldn't tell the same story that Wolfe told in his books. (And, of course, with poor choices as writer and director, it could be made into the most God awful pap ever to grace the silver screen.) That being said, I think some of his "lesser" works would translate well to film. I can't think of anything vital in "Pandora" which would be lost in film. Same with "Devil in a Forest." The events of the Latro series would probably translate well but I'm not sure that the same sense of Latro's memory loss could be maintained throughout a film as are present in the prose. Again, they could make a great film but I'm not sure that it would tell the same story. "Fifth Head" is a more interesting proposition. It would be tricky to pull off, particularly the third book, but I think the right writer and director could make an absolutely amazing trio of films from that series. --- ### Recursive Loop *10 Apr 2007, 12:04 · in reply to Daniel D Jones* Greetings: "The events of the Latro series would probably translate well but I'm not sure that the same sense of Latro's memory loss could be maintained throughout a film as are present in the prose. Again, they could make a great film but I'm not sure that it would tell the same story." When I first heard about "Memento", I didn't think it would work. But it turned out to be a darn good film. Using a similar mechanism might work for the memory lapse in the Latro tales. (Reference note for those who may have not seen it, here there be spoilers!) FPK3 --- ### Batrinque at aol.com *10 Apr 2007, 12:07 · follows Recursive Loop* In a message dated 4/10/2007 8:04:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, recursive_loop at yahoo.com writes: When I first heard about "Memento", I didn't think it would work. But it turned out to be a darn good film. Using a similar mechanism might work for the memory lapse in the Latro tales. (Reference note for those who may have not seen it, here there be spoilers!) "Memento" came to my mind also as an example of a film with a similar situation -- and a well-made film, too. Bruce Trinque Amston, CT --- ### peter heyneman *10 Apr 2007, 14:28 · in reply to Daniel D Jones* I'm rereading the Long Sun now and imagining it as a mini-series for HBO with a quirky soundtrack of Jen-Michel Jarre and Kraftwerk and Coco-Rosie and Casiotone for the Painfully Alone and stuff played on electronic toy instruments from the 70s. It relies on narrator/narrative ambiguity less than most other of his series and has some cool fight scenes and a love story. So there. --Peter > From: Daniel D Jones > Reply-To: The Urth Mailing List > To: The Urth Mailing List > Subject: Re: (urth) The Soundtrack > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:55:08 -0500 > > On Monday 09 April 2007 19:14, Mark Lewin wrote: >> I doubt if if anyone on this list disagrees with me that none of GW's >> books >> would make a good film. >> >> What ... you do? Which one? > That depends a great deal on precisely what you mean when you say "...a > good > film." I think most people would agree that TBOTNS wouldn't _translate_ > well > to film. It would be impossible to capture a great deal of what makes that > series work in a visual medium. However, that's not at all the same thing > as > saying that TBOTNS would not make a good film. With the correct choice of > screen writer and director, it could make a good film. But the film > wouldn't > tell the same story that Wolfe told in his books. (And, of course, with > poor > choices as writer and director, it could be made into the most God awful > pap > ever to grace the silver screen.) > > That being said, I think some of his "lesser" works would translate well to > film. I can't think of anything vital in "Pandora" which would be lost in > film. Same with "Devil in a Forest." > > The events of the Latro series would probably translate well but I'm not > sure > that the same sense of Latro's memory loss could be maintained throughout a > film as are present in the prose. Again, they could make a great film but > I'm not sure that it would tell the same story. > > "Fifth Head" is a more interesting proposition. It would be tricky to pull > off, particularly the third book, but I think the right writer and director > could make an absolutely amazing trio of films from that series. > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Matthew King *10 Apr 2007, 14:55 · in reply to Recursive Loop* > On Apr 10, 2007, at 7:04 AM, Recursive Loop wrote: > When I first heard about "Memento", I didn't think it would work. > But it turned out to be a darn > good film. Using a similar mechanism might work for the memory > lapse in the Latro tales. The backwards trick would pose very different problems if used with the Latro stories, but I can imagine it used to great effect with some plot threads. The Pharetra story could be effectively handled this way: we see Latro with pseudo-Pharetra first. Then we see a red-haired Amazon die, and we find out she was the real Pharetra. The depiction of Drakaina's back-transformation into Eurykles would be eerie. Some of the revelations would be just plain fun: this man who has been accompanying Latro for a few scenes turns out to be Sisyphus. For my part, I would wish to see a different mechanism used, one that tells the story in the same general temporal direction as Wolfe. It would be very easy to make excessive use of voice-overs, if Latro's diary were made a plot device. The scrolls are necessary for Wolfe to present Latro's story to us, but they are not necessary in film, and I think they would be a distraction. What if the physician at the beginning of Mist teaches Latro how to use a memory palace instead of giving him a scroll and stylus? The entire film could take place in the memory palace (shades of Prospero's Books). Superego Latro walks the palace, touching objects and retrieving memories. Occasionally, new objects appear onscreen, but Latro may or may not touch them. Then in the middle of Sidon, Osiris and the gang all show up live in the memory palace with the 4 (?) other Latros. --- ### Nathan Spears *10 Apr 2007, 18:30 · follows peter heyneman* There Are Doors could be a great movie - the novel is driven mostly by action and dialogue, rather than atmospheric prose, philosophizing, or textual games. The themes in There Are Doors also translate well to screen - love, loss, longing, beautiful women, etc. Free Live Free for similar reasons. There are riddles in Free Live Free, but they stem from the narrative rather than the medium. As an aside - has anyone ever thought about the possibilities of creating a movie from an excerpt of a novel? For instance, while I was watching the recent Lord of the Rings movies, I found myself wishing that they would have chosen one or two scenes from the book and done them justice, rather than consolidating and reducing quality of the work as a whole to what ended up on film. The Battle of the Pelennor Fields (and it's aftermath), for example, could have been a fine movie in its own right, complete with all the themes from LotR in microcosm. Or a "chase movie" with Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas pursuing the orcs that abducted Merry and Pippin, with long takes of the chase the way that Rabbit Proof Fence drew out the journey through the outback. In my opinion this would have been preferable - the movie can be a self-contained story in its own right, satisfying people who have not read the books. True fans of the books who know that, unless the story is serialized the way HBO is doing for Martin's A Game of Thrones, it won't be adapted properly, should also be happy to see part of the book filmed "correctly." Anyway, if this sort of thing were possible I think the Book of the New Sun could provide some fantastic movies. Large portions of the book are already visually dancing in my mind anyway . . . ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel D Jones To: The Urth Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 6:55:08 AM Subject: Re: (urth) The Soundtrack > On Monday 09 April 2007 19:14, Mark Lewin wrote: > I doubt if if anyone on this list disagrees with me that none of GW's books > would make a good film. > > What ... you do? Which one? That depends a great deal on precisely what you mean when you say "...a good film." I think most people would agree that TBOTNS wouldn't _translate_ well to film. It would be impossible to capture a great deal of what makes that series work in a visual medium. However, that's not at all the same thing as saying that TBOTNS would not make a good film. With the correct choice of screen writer and director, it could make a good film. But the film wouldn't tell the same story that Wolfe told in his books. (And, of course, with poor choices as writer and director, it could be made into the most God awful pap ever to grace the silver screen.) That being said, I think some of his "lesser" works would translate well to film. I can't think of anything vital in "Pandora" which would be lost in film. Same with "Devil in a Forest." The events of the Latro series would probably translate well but I'm not sure that the same sense of Latro's memory loss could be maintained throughout a film as are present in the prose. Again, they could make a great film but I'm not sure that it would tell the same story. "Fifth Head" is a more interesting proposition. It would be tricky to pull off, particularly the third book, but I think the right writer and director could make an absolutely amazing trio of films from that series. --- ### Dan'l Danehy-Oakes *10 Apr 2007, 18:41 · in reply to Nathan Spears* > On 4/10/07, Nathan Spears wrote: > There Are Doors ... Free Live Free I knew I'd missed some! H'mmm. "There Are Doors" wants something kind of alien. Maybe Magma could do it. "Free Live Free" is probably the cheerfullest thing WOlfe ever wrote; I could see it as a musical with Ashman-Mencken type songs. ``` Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant ----- http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer http://www.danehyoakes.com Soon, where Toon Town once stood will be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful. ``` --- ### Craig Christensen *10 Apr 2007, 19:47 · follows Dan'l Danehy-Oakes* > On Monday 09 April 2007 19:14, Mark Lewin wrote: >> I doubt if if anyone on this list disagrees with me that none of GW's >> books >> would make a good film. >> >> What ... you do? Which one? > 'Peace'. I would love to see the audience reaction when they discover it > is a ghost story. (right?) --- ### Chris *10 Apr 2007, 21:52 · in reply to Recursive Loop* I agree that Memento was one of the first things I thought of. But if you used all the same devices, you would basically be making another Memento - even if the content of the story were much different (as it certainly is). It would take something very different and original, I think, to make such a movie worth making. > Greetings: > > "The events of the Latro series would probably translate well but I'm not > sure > that the same sense of Latro's memory loss could be maintained throughout a > film as are present in the prose. Again, they could make a great film but > I'm not sure that it would tell the same story." > > When I first heard about "Memento", I didn't think it would work. But it > turned out to be a darn > good film. Using a similar mechanism might work for the memory lapse in the > Latro tales. > > > > (Reference note for those who may have not seen it, here there be > spoilers!) > > FPK3 > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > The fish are biting. > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > _______________________________________________ --- ### Adam Thornton *10 Apr 2007, 22:21 · in reply to Chris* > On Apr 10, 2007, at 4:52 PM, Chris wrote: > I agree that Memento was one of the first things I thought of. But > if you > used all the same devices, you would basically be making another > Memento - > even if the content of the story were much different (as it > certainly is). > It would take something very different and original, I think, to > make such a > movie worth making. Oh no, I can see the pitch now: "It's like _300_ meets _Memento_." I just threw up in my mouth. Adam --- ### James Wynn *11 Apr 2007, 14:50 · in reply to Adam Thornton* I understand that the hero in the new movie "The Lookout" is lacking short-term memory due to an accident. It is interesting to me that both Memento and the "Soldier" novels have an underlying sub-theme of the skeptical value of written memory: In Memento, Leonard has tattoos and documentation as "evidence", but he cannot know if the evidence has been tampered with nor can he recheck his methodology by which he came by the evidence. In Soldier, Latro has documentation that describes all sorts or weirdness going on, but he can't know if he was crazy when he wrote it. In fact, he cannot know if he actually wrote it, since he is only going by the testimony of what people tell him (whom he often does not know from Adam). --- ### Cliff Judge *11 Apr 2007, 16:20 · in reply to Mark Lewin* > On 4/9/07, Mark Lewin wrote: > > I doubt if if anyone on this list disagrees with me that none of GW's > books would make a good film. > > What ... you do? Which one? I had an enjoyable time casting Free Live Free with smaller-time actors as I was reading it, and I think it is definately a cult classic of a movie yet to be made. --- ### Nathan Spears *11 Apr 2007, 16:48 · follows Cliff Judge* ----- Original Message ---- > From: James Wynn > To: The Urth Mailing List > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:50:46 AM > Subject: Re: (urth) The Soundtrack > I understand that the hero in the new movie "The Lookout" is lacking > short-term memory due to an accident. His memory is affected but it is a different type of damage than Latro's. He lacks the ability to sequence normally, for instance, and also has some disinhibition issues. It's an absorbing movie. > It is interesting to me that both Memento and the "Soldier" novels > have an underlying sub-theme of the skeptical value of written memory: I don't think anyone would be able to film the Soldier novels without being (unfairly) compared to Memento, if only because so many people were exposed to knowledge of the condition originally through Memento. Add the fact that Memento explored the issues involved pretty thoroughly, and that the movie was so well made, and I think the idea of a Memento with Greek gods would baffle people. --- ### James Wynn *11 Apr 2007, 22:34 · in reply to Nathan Spears* > I think the idea of a Memento with Greek gods would baffle people. I agree, especially since the gods in the Greek portion of "Soldier" are way too obscure for pedestrian movie watchers. Zeus, Athena, Hermes are nowhere to be found. Demeter and Hecate are major gods but are unknown to more than a tiny subset 14-30 year olds. And even when they aren't obscure, they either appear in unfamiliar fashion as Ares does in "Arete" and as Aphrodite does in Corinth in "Mist", or without any visual identifiers that would help the audience know who he is. For example, I can imagine when (is it) Odysseus? comes in to help Latro by holding back the fighters, some producer will want a screen tag that says: "Odysseus. Hero of the Trojan War and famous explorer of Greek legend. He is long dead by this time." When I first read SotM in the 80s, I had only the vaguest knowledge about Dionysus and was totally lost during the Silenus encounter. Incidentally, Dionysus never actually makes an appearance in that scene, does he? --- ### Batrinque at aol.com *12 Apr 2007, 00:32 · follows James Wynn* In a message dated 4/11/2007 6:34:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, crushtv at gmail.com writes: I agree, especially since the gods in the Greek portion of "Soldier" are way too obscure for pedestrian movie watchers. Are there any published works (or on-line sites) that "translate" the names of cities, lands, and gods as they appear in "Soldier in the Mist"? I am reasonably conversant with classical Greece, but I am sure that there were some references that escaped me. Bruce Trinque Amston, CT --- ### Jeff Wilson *12 Apr 2007, 07:28 · in reply to James Wynn* >> James Wynn wrote: >> I think the idea of a Memento with Greek gods would baffle people. > I agree, especially since the gods in the Greek portion of "Soldier" > are way too obscure for pedestrian movie watchers. Zeus, Athena, > Hermes are nowhere to be found. Demeter and Hecate are major gods but > are unknown to more than a tiny subset 14-30 year olds. And even when > they aren't obscure, they either appear in unfamiliar fashion as Ares > does in "Arete" and as Aphrodite does in Corinth in "Mist", or without > any visual identifiers that would help the audience know who he is. > > For example, I can imagine when (is it) Odysseus? comes in to help > Latro by holding back the fighters, some producer will want a screen > tag that says: > "Odysseus. Hero of the Trojan War and famous explorer of Greek legend. > He is long dead by this time." This is do-able as in the recent _Alexander_, with a short sequence of Philip showing young Alexander the mystery cave and delivering his maltheistic rant seeded with trivia about the mythic and legendary figures' antiquity. This could be economically adapted to the hypothetical Soldier movie by opening on a liturgical ceremony of Eurykles' mystery cult being overheard by Latro, who is seized as an infidel but is spared when Eurykles explains his head wound causes him to forget all he witnesses and that he finds this sort of "servant" useful. Then during the rest of the film, the more enigmatic divinities and spirits are signified by displaying an attribute mentioned during the liturgy. ``` Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson > ``` --- ### Matthew King *12 Apr 2007, 14:39 · in reply to Batrinque at aol.com* > On Apr 11, 2007, at 7:32 PM, Batrinque at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/11/2007 6:34:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > crushtv at gmail.com writes: > I agree, especially since the gods in the Greek portion of "Soldier" > are way too obscure for pedestrian movie watchers. > Are there any published works (or on-line sites) that "translate" > the names of cities, lands, and gods as they appear in "Soldier in > the Mist"? I am reasonably conversant with classical Greece, but I > am sure that there were some references that escaped me. From the Urth archives: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0029/0212.shtml --- ### Four Color *12 Apr 2007, 15:20 · follows Jeff Wilson* What I would like from a GW movie would be to think that I'm in one story, but find out that it's really a different story. For example, a setup for "The Island of Doctor Death" becoming an epiphany about The Book of the New Sun. This, I think, would be in the spirit of much of his work. What two stories do you think would make a good bait-and-switch movie? Regards, Tim --- ### Martinus Scriblerus *12 Apr 2007, 18:06 · in reply to Matthew King* > On 4/12/07, Matthew King wrote: > On Apr 11, 2007, at 7:32 PM, Batrinque at aol.com wrote: >> In a message dated 4/11/2007 6:34:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> crushtv at gmail.com writes: >> I agree, especially since the gods in the Greek portion of "Soldier" >> are way too obscure for pedestrian movie watchers. >> Are there any published works (or on-line sites) that "translate" >> the names of cities, lands, and gods as they appear in "Soldier in >> the Mist"? I am reasonably conversant with classical Greece, but I >> am sure that there were some references that escaped me. > From the Urth archives: > > http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0029/0212.shtml Thanks - this will be useful. These are amongst my favourite books by Gene Wolfe. ``` Martinus Scriblerus scripsit ex 50? 21' N, 4?41' W ``` --- ### Stanislaus *19 Apr 2007, 15:47 · in reply to Mark Lewin* Hello Mark, > Tuesday, April 10, 2007, 1:14:28 AM, you wrote: > I doubt if if anyone on this list disagrees with me that none of > GW's books would make a good film. > What ... you do? Which one? The Book of the New Sun, of course. The film wouldn't be very similar to the book, however. ``` Best regards, Stanislaus mailto:sbocian at poczta.fm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Masz plan? Potrzebujesz motywacji — wejdz na >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1a40 ``` --- ### Iorwerth Thomas *20 Apr 2007, 20:30 · in reply to Mark Lewin* > From: "Mark Lewin" > And if you don't (or even if you do) what would make a good soundtrack? > Which film? Which track? > > And ... in the absence of any films, what do you like to listen to when you > read GW? Sonic Youth, Radiohead, the Pixies, Eels, the Clash, Queens of the Stone Age. That's probably a very odd list of things to be listening to while reading Wolfe, but oh well... --Iozz --- ### Tim Walters *24 Apr 2007, 02:37 · in reply to Adam Thornton* Sorry to be responding to this thread so late, but I just got back from a month's vacation. I have a couple of Wolfe-related music items in my collection: 1. Turtle Island String Quartet, BY THE FIRESIDE, "Row, Brothers, Row": "'Row, Brothers, Row' is an old river chant from a million years in the future, inspired by the work of author Gene Wolfe. It's a tribute to perseverance in the face of opposition, and unexpected friends." 2. Proof Of Utah, IT DOESN'T MATTER MUCH: This LP bears the following item on its sleeve: You know that another week'll Take us to the _fin de siecle_ So why'd we let the movie houses Duck out of running Mickey Mouses? That flash up in the corner means Last reals flashing onto screens; The news is reeling--needs a crutch We say It Doesn't Matter Much, But wouldn't mind a Porky Pig Now that the fox has played her gig --Gene Wolfe (Oct. 1985) I don't know what the story is behind this. Also, I've written a couple of Wolfe-inspired tracks myself: "House Absolute" and "War Beneath The Tree." ``` Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com ``` ---