{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4822", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4822, "subject": "Severian raising the the uhlan, Zama", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2007-04-22T21:36:59+00:00", "last": "2007-05-03T06:12:19+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<1A905D5AFFFCE14BA291E0BB8D0A65BF04D10373@WDCNTEXVS01.corporate.nzpost.co.nz>", "from": { "name": "Maclean Jessica", "address": "jessica.maclean at nzpost.co.nz" }, "date": "2007-04-22T21:36:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian raising the the uhlan, Zama", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello all\n\nAs a new member, I apologise if this subject is old hat- I did trawl\nthrough the archives but couldn't find a reference. I was thinking about\nSeverian resurrecting the uhlan, Zama, and Miles. It seems to me that\nwhen Severian raises the dead he is recreating the person in his mind\nsomehow- therefore when he resurrects Zama and the uhlan, because he\ndoesn't know anything about them, they do not appear to know much about\nthemselves. \n\nWhen Sev raises Miles, he had Jonas in his mind at the time... which I\nthink allowed Jonas to hitch a ride, as it were.\n\nAlso, regarding Dr Talos's play \"Eschatology and Genesis\" - the title is\na direct reference to the Bible, which starts with Genesis and ends in\nRevelations (which is a form of eschatology). To me it suggests that the\nBible itself could be started with Revelations (the eschatology) first,\nthen on to Genesis and the start of the next cycle, which is an\ninteresting take. Of course Wolfe is too clever to merely incorporate\none \"world's beginning\" tradition hence the incorporation of the\nSumerian and Persian elements. I wonder if this is Wolfe's way of saying\nthat all those legends, myths etc are different versions of the same\nevent...\n\nThoughts, comments? :-) \n\n________________________________________ \nJessica Maclean \nCustomer Liaison \nNew Zealand Post \n________________________________________ \nTel: 0800 100 318 Fax: 0800 100 319\ne-mail: jessica.maclean at nzpost.co.nz \ncustomerliaison@ nzpost.co.nz \n_______________________________________ \nWinners of GOLD at the coveted CRM Contact Centre Awards 2006\n\nSmile, life is good! \nThis email with any attachments is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. \nIf it is not intended for you please reply immediately, destroy it and do not copy, disclose or use it in any way. " } ] }, { "message_id": "<000d01c7856b$d1ff1aa0$f6c85a42@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2007-04-23T05:54:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian raising the the uhlan, Zama", "in_reply_to": "<1A905D5AFFFCE14BA291E0BB8D0A65BF04D10373@WDCNTEXVS01.corporate.nzpost.co.nz>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Welcome, Jessica." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "As a new member, I apologise if this subject is old hat- I did trawl\nthrough the archives but couldn't find a reference. I was thinking about\nSeverian resurrecting the uhlan, Zama, and Miles. It seems to me that\nwhen Severian raises the dead he is recreating the person in his mind\nsomehow- therefore when he resurrects Zama and the uhlan, because he\ndoesn't know anything about them, they do not appear to know much about\nthemselves. <<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The confusion exhibited by newly revivified persons has been termed\n\"resurrection shock\" by someone, probably mantis. Severian himself\nexperienced it at the Sanguinary Field when he apparently brought himself\nback from what should have been death by avern. That's why he had to have\nDorcas tell him what happened after he was struck, despite his famous\nmemory. The loss of identity seems to be temporary, however; Dorcas began\nrecovering her memories over the next few months.\n\nDorcas herself is an exception to the theory that Sev consciously influences\nthe person he revives. Sev didn't even know he had revived her until after\nthe fact. Triskele likewise." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "When Sev raises Miles, he had Jonas in his mind at the time... which I\nthink allowed Jonas to hitch a ride, as it were.<<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've argued the same before, and I believe others have, too. Another special\ncase where Sev may have exerted an unconscious but definite influence is the\ndead assassin who then killed Valeria, as I argued a couple years ago.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Dale", "address": "undergod_13 at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2007-05-03T06:12:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian raising the the uhlan, Zama", "in_reply_to": "<000d01c7856b$d1ff1aa0$f6c85a42@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As for Miles and Jonas...\n\nThe way I see it is that Miles in the near future is recruited to work on a \nspace faring ship... one that might be a bit framilar as in tBotNS, if not \nthat ship itself...\n\nSomething happens to this ship in the distant future/past while Miles is on \nit and it crashes and/or malfunctions forcing the Cyborg Jonas to aquire \nbiological parts until a more sutable replacement is avaliable. Miles a \ndead crewmate just so happened to be avaliable.\n\nThus... I do think Jonas took on a part of Miles when he did this... not the \nother way around...\n\nPerhaps the interactions Severain makes with Miles... actually effects \nJonas's behavior...\n\nOtherwise the rest of the confussion is due to ressurection shock as stated \nbefore.\n\n-Michael" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Welcome, Jessica." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "As a new member, I apologise if this subject is old hat- I did trawl\nthrough the archives but couldn't find a reference. I was thinking about\nSeverian resurrecting the uhlan, Zama, and Miles. It seems to me that\nwhen Severian raises the dead he is recreating the person in his mind\nsomehow- therefore when he resurrects Zama and the uhlan, because he\ndoesn't know anything about them, they do not appear to know much about\nthemselves. <<" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The confusion exhibited by newly revivified persons has been termed\n\"resurrection shock\" by someone, probably mantis. Severian himself\nexperienced it at the Sanguinary Field when he apparently brought himself\nback from what should have been death by avern. That's why he had to have\nDorcas tell him what happened after he was struck, despite his famous\nmemory. The loss of identity seems to be temporary, however; Dorcas began\nrecovering her memories over the next few months.\n\nDorcas herself is an exception to the theory that Sev consciously \ninfluences\nthe person he revives. Sev didn't even know he had revived her until after\nthe fact. Triskele likewise." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "When Sev raises Miles, he had Jonas in his mind at the time... which I\nthink allowed Jonas to hitch a ride, as it were.<<" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I've argued the same before, and I believe others have, too. Another \nspecial\ncase where Sev may have exerted an unconscious but definite influence is \nthe\ndead assassin who then killed Valeria, as I argued a couple years ago.\n\n-Roy" } ] } ] }