# Severian raising the the uhlan, Zama *The Urth list — 3 messages, 3 voices, 22 Apr 2007* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Maclean Jessica *22 Apr 2007, 21:36* Hello all As a new member, I apologise if this subject is old hat- I did trawl through the archives but couldn't find a reference. I was thinking about Severian resurrecting the uhlan, Zama, and Miles. It seems to me that when Severian raises the dead he is recreating the person in his mind somehow- therefore when he resurrects Zama and the uhlan, because he doesn't know anything about them, they do not appear to know much about themselves. When Sev raises Miles, he had Jonas in his mind at the time... which I think allowed Jonas to hitch a ride, as it were. Also, regarding Dr Talos's play "Eschatology and Genesis" - the title is a direct reference to the Bible, which starts with Genesis and ends in Revelations (which is a form of eschatology). To me it suggests that the Bible itself could be started with Revelations (the eschatology) first, then on to Genesis and the start of the next cycle, which is an interesting take. Of course Wolfe is too clever to merely incorporate one "world's beginning" tradition hence the incorporation of the Sumerian and Persian elements. I wonder if this is Wolfe's way of saying that all those legends, myths etc are different versions of the same event... Thoughts, comments? :-) ________________________________________ Jessica Maclean Customer Liaison New Zealand Post ________________________________________ Tel: 0800 100 318 Fax: 0800 100 319 e-mail: jessica.maclean at nzpost.co.nz customerliaison@ nzpost.co.nz _______________________________________ Winners of GOLD at the coveted CRM Contact Centre Awards 2006 Smile, life is good! This email with any attachments is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If it is not intended for you please reply immediately, destroy it and do not copy, disclose or use it in any way. --- ### Roy C. Lackey *23 Apr 2007, 05:54 · follows Maclean Jessica* Welcome, Jessica. >> As a new member, I apologise if this subject is old hat- I did trawl >> through the archives but couldn't find a reference. I was thinking about >> Severian resurrecting the uhlan, Zama, and Miles. It seems to me that >> when Severian raises the dead he is recreating the person in his mind >> somehow- therefore when he resurrects Zama and the uhlan, because he >> doesn't know anything about them, they do not appear to know much about >> themselves. << The confusion exhibited by newly revivified persons has been termed "resurrection shock" by someone, probably mantis. Severian himself experienced it at the Sanguinary Field when he apparently brought himself back from what should have been death by avern. That's why he had to have Dorcas tell him what happened after he was struck, despite his famous memory. The loss of identity seems to be temporary, however; Dorcas began recovering her memories over the next few months. Dorcas herself is an exception to the theory that Sev consciously influences the person he revives. Sev didn't even know he had revived her until after the fact. Triskele likewise. >> When Sev raises Miles, he had Jonas in his mind at the time... which I >> think allowed Jonas to hitch a ride, as it were.<< I've argued the same before, and I believe others have, too. Another special case where Sev may have exerted an unconscious but definite influence is the dead assassin who then killed Valeria, as I argued a couple years ago. -Roy --- ### Michael Dale *03 May 2007, 06:12 · in reply to Roy C. Lackey* As for Miles and Jonas... The way I see it is that Miles in the near future is recruited to work on a space faring ship... one that might be a bit framilar as in tBotNS, if not that ship itself... Something happens to this ship in the distant future/past while Miles is on it and it crashes and/or malfunctions forcing the Cyborg Jonas to aquire biological parts until a more sutable replacement is avaliable. Miles a dead crewmate just so happened to be avaliable. Thus... I do think Jonas took on a part of Miles when he did this... not the other way around... Perhaps the interactions Severain makes with Miles... actually effects Jonas's behavior... Otherwise the rest of the confussion is due to ressurection shock as stated before. -Michael > Welcome, Jessica. >>> As a new member, I apologise if this subject is old hat- I did trawl >>> through the archives but couldn't find a reference. I was thinking about >>> Severian resurrecting the uhlan, Zama, and Miles. It seems to me that >>> when Severian raises the dead he is recreating the person in his mind >>> somehow- therefore when he resurrects Zama and the uhlan, because he >>> doesn't know anything about them, they do not appear to know much about >>> themselves. << > The confusion exhibited by newly revivified persons has been termed > "resurrection shock" by someone, probably mantis. Severian himself > experienced it at the Sanguinary Field when he apparently brought himself > back from what should have been death by avern. That's why he had to have > Dorcas tell him what happened after he was struck, despite his famous > memory. The loss of identity seems to be temporary, however; Dorcas began > recovering her memories over the next few months. > > Dorcas herself is an exception to the theory that Sev consciously > influences > the person he revives. Sev didn't even know he had revived her until after > the fact. Triskele likewise. >>> When Sev raises Miles, he had Jonas in his mind at the time... which I >>> think allowed Jonas to hitch a ride, as it were.<< > I've argued the same before, and I believe others have, too. Another > special > case where Sev may have exerted an unconscious but definite influence is > the > dead assassin who then killed Valeria, as I argued a couple years ago. > > -Roy ---