{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4824",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4824,
    "subject": "Griffin in The Knight",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2007-05-04T00:46:57+00:00",
    "last": "2007-05-04T17:59:02+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<cd1.dd8ec23.336bdc81@aol.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "JBarach at aol.com",
        "address": "jbarach at aol.com"
      },
      "date": "2007-05-04T00:46:57+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Griffin in The Knight",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Urthers --\n \nI don't recall seeing any discussion of this already on this list, and I  \ncouldn't find any when I searched the archives, so please forgive me if this has  \nbeen brought up before.\n \nI finished The Knight last night.  It ends with Able calling upon  the \ngriffin (\"or on whoever's altar this may be\") and then flying upon the  griffin to \nfight and conquer the dragon.  In fact, the cave where Able  found the altar \nwas once the griffin's home, though now possessed by the dragon,  so that Able \nin a sense is \"exorcising\" it, casting out the dragon.  I  gather that the cave \nis also the place Able was looking for, the source of the  Griffin river, and \nAble has been looking for Griffinsford from the beginning of  the book.  \n \nSo with all that griffin stuff in mind, I dipped into Jorge Luis  Borges' \nBook of Imaginary Beings today and read what he says about the  griffin.  He \npoints out that usually in the Middle Ages the griffon is \"an  emblem of Christ,\" \nas Isidore of Seville explains in his Etymologies:  \"Christ is a lion because \nhe reigns and has great strength; and an eagle  because, after the \nResurrection, he ascended to heaven.\"\n \nSimilarly, Dante's Purgatorio (Canto XXIX) has the church as a chariot  drawn \nby a griffon, Borges notes.  Again, it would appear that the  griffon might \nbe Christ, but others (says Borges) \"feel that Dante wished to  symbolize the \nPope, who is both priest and king.  Didron, in his Manuel  d'iconographie \nchretienne (1845) writes: 'The pope, as pontiff or eagle, is  borne aloft to the \nthrone of God to receive his commands, and as lion or king  walks on earth with \nstrength and might.'\"\n \nSo much for Borges.  I know that Wolfe is more than a little familiar  with \nthis work by Borges, which, of course, is the source for Baldanders in the  New \nSun, so I'm wondering if he might not have the medieval symbolism of the  \ngriffin in mind at the end of The Knight.\n \nWhat think you?\n \nJohn\n \n \n%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%\nJohn Barach   (541) 531-2906\nPastor, Reformation Covenant Church (CREC)\n706 Beekman Avenue\nMedford, OR  97501\n_http://barach.us_ (http://barach.us) \n_http://rccso.com_ (http://rccso.com) \n "
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<1f7617370705041059o3cac4279m3bad6101fd983907@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes",
        "address": "danldo at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2007-05-04T17:59:02+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Griffin in The Knight",
      "in_reply_to": "<cd1.dd8ec23.336bdc81@aol.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 5/3/07, JBarach at aol.com <JBarach at aol.com> wrote:\n\nWhat think you?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I think I like cheese.\n\nI think that if the griffon is a Christ-symbol it's partly because it's\na twinatured beast.\n\nI think that if we're going to figure this out we have to figure out\njust what happened between the two books."
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\nSoon, where Toon Town once stood will be a string of gas stations,\ninexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire\nsalons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching\nas far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}