{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4886", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4886, "subject": "Eyeflash Miracles: WolfeWiki Content", "messages": 10, "voices": 6, "first": "2007-07-21T00:42:18+00:00", "last": "2007-07-25T17:12:14+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<39ed084f0707201742l1eab31b5l300958d112738aff@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Groves", "address": "matthewalangroves at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-07-21T00:42:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyeflash Miracles: WolfeWiki Content", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There's a set of essays in the old archives about Wizard of Oz\nreferences in \"The Eyeflash Miracles.\" The essays are by William\nAnsley, and they are very thorough on the Oz connections as well as\nbeing a guide to interpretation. Here are the relevant posts:\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0046.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0050.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0052.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0054.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0057.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0059.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0072.shtml\n\nThis is just the sort of thing I would like to see in the WolfeWiki.\nA lot of work went into these essays, and others like them. I wonder,\nfirst of all, what the WolfeWiki custodians think about the\npossibility of (upon obtaining Mr. Ansley's permission) editing these\nposts for inclusion on the Wiki. Second, I wonder about the\nfeasibility of mining the archives for other gems like these and using\nthem for the Wiki as well. The alternative is to create all such\ncontent from scratch, which, besides being an unnecessary duplication\nof effort, is a task that boggles my mind, considering Wolfe's\ncomplexity and the breadth of his intertextuality.\n\nAny thoughts?\n\nMatthew\n\nPS: Bill is a Vironese name. Just occurred to me. So is Slippery Dick." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370707201937l4d2f209exf390784d5ef5231e@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-07-21T02:37:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eyeflash Miracles: WolfeWiki Content", "in_reply_to": "<39ed084f0707201742l1eab31b5l300958d112738aff@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Assuming that William agreed, I'd be delighted to put it into some kind of\nusable form.\n\nDoes anyone have a current eddress for him?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/20/07, Matthew Groves wrote:\nThere's a set of essays in the old archives about Wizard of Oz\nreferences in \"The Eyeflash Miracles.\" The essays are by William\nAnsley, and they are very thorough on the Oz connections as well as\nbeing a guide to interpretation. Here are the relevant posts:\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0046.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0050.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0052.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0054.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0057.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0059.shtml\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0024/0072.shtml\n\nThis is just the sort of thing I would like to see in the WolfeWiki.\nA lot of work went into these essays, and others like them. I wonder,\nfirst of all, what the WolfeWiki custodians think about the\npossibility of (upon obtaining Mr. Ansley's permission) editing these\nposts for inclusion on the Wiki. Second, I wonder about the\nfeasibility of mining the archives for other gems like these and using\nthem for the Wiki as well. The alternative is to create all such\ncontent from scratch, which, besides being an unnecessary duplication\nof effort, is a task that boggles my mind, considering Wolfe's\ncomplexity and the breadth of his intertextuality.\n\nAny thoughts?\n\nMatthew\n\nPS: Bill is a Vironese name. Just occurred to me. So is Slippery Dick.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20070723190605.01E461BB8E@che.dreamhost.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar / UKG", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2007-07-23T19:06:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WolfeWiki", "in_reply_to": "<39ed084f0707201742l1eab31b5l300958d112738aff@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi all,\n\nJust a quick update on how things are going over at WolfeWiki.\n\nI hope Dan'l won't mind me singling him out for having done some \nterrific work sorting, systematizing and writing. The pages are \nfilling up gradually, but it'd be great to have some more voices \ncontributing. Not just Wolfe experts, anyone who wants to help the \nproject along will be very welcome as there's plenty of routine work \nstill to do!\n\nA few of the pages that have been set up:\n\nFront page:\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WolfeWiki.Introduction\n\nContents:\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WolfeWiki.Contents\n\nPage on the recent story Unrequited Love:\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Stories.UnrequitedLove\n\nPage on Long Sun\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WolfeWiki.TheBookOfTheLongSun\n\nAnd to sign up as a contributor:\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Admin.BecomingAnEditor\n\nbest,\n\nMo" } ] }, { "message_id": "<518436.28233.qm@web63914.mail.re1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Recursive Loop", "address": "recursive_loop at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2007-07-24T14:27:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WolfeWiki", "in_reply_to": "<20070723190605.01E461BB8E@che.dreamhost.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Greetings:\n\nI'm working through \"Shadow\" for the first time since...ummm...mumble...looks up and\nwhistles..can't be THAT LONG!\n\nAnyway, it is going to be a while before I feel confident enough to contribute to this, but the\nefforts are helping me on this go-round.\n\n(Sometimes I feel, as I'm reading, I should be carrying a notebook to jot down words and words and\nwords...words that I want to learn, look up, start using. This time around I'm reading it less for\na story than an appreciation for the craft).\n\nFPK3\n\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370707240930x70b103f2vd43da1c9907baf84@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-07-24T16:30:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WolfeWiki", "in_reply_to": "<20070723190605.01E461BB8E@che.dreamhost.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/23/07, Mo Holkar / UKG wrote:\nI hope Dan'l won't mind me singling him out for having done some\nterrific work sorting, systematizing and writing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Why would I mind being singled out for compliments?\n\nI'm trying to systematically *start* pages. But a lot of what I am\ndoing is *just* a start. This is a wiki, and the whole point is to\nmobsource content -- I'd really like people to take the stuff I've\ndone and make it better. In some cases, *much* better.\n\nOne thing that would help a lot is if you would go to the\npages for books that have been started, look at you copies,\nand, if the edition you have isn't listed, add information about\nthat edition (publisher, date, cover artist; if you're feeling\nambitious, add the blurb at the bottom).\n\nThe point is, it's a wiki, edit it! Add content! Don't worry\nabout it not being \"good enough,\" the whole point is tha\nsomeone else will take it as a starting point and make it\nbetter ... in a sense, this is the opposite of \"pedant\ncentral,\" nobody's ego needs to be involved." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\nSoon, where Toon Town once stood will be a string of gas stations,\ninexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire\nsalons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards\nreaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90707241048g7129aa8ej65c2235f45e4f555@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-07-24T17:48:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WolfeWiki", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370707240930x70b103f2vd43da1c9907baf84@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I noticed that it's not a free-edit Wiki. How hard is it to obtain\npermissions?\n\nFurthermore, what is the spirit of this thing? From what I've seen there\nisn't a lot of consensus about the interpretation, so perhaps the sections\npertaining to places and characters should focus on objective facts to avoid\neditorial battles.\nHowever, I would rather like to see an interpretive FAQ of sorts for the\nstory also, perhaps in a separate section for each of the books." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/24/07, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\n\nOn 7/23/07, Mo Holkar / UKG wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I hope Dan'l won't mind me singling him out for having done some\nterrific work sorting, systematizing and writing." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Why would I mind being singled out for compliments?\n\nI'm trying to systematically *start* pages. But a lot of what I am\ndoing is *just* a start. This is a wiki, and the whole point is to\nmobsource content -- I'd really like people to take the stuff I've\ndone and make it better. In some cases, *much* better.\n\nOne thing that would help a lot is if you would go to the\npages for books that have been started, look at you copies,\nand, if the edition you have isn't listed, add information about\nthat edition (publisher, date, cover artist; if you're feeling\nambitious, add the blurb at the bottom).\n\nThe point is, it's a wiki, edit it! Add content! Don't worry\nabout it not being \"good enough,\" the whole point is tha\nsomeone else will take it as a starting point and make it\nbetter ... in a sense, this is the opposite of \"pedant\ncentral,\" nobody's ego needs to be involved.\n\n--\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\nSoon, where Toon Town once stood will be a string of gas stations,\ninexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire\nsalons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards\nreaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370707241248w6312e796l8410b6f641694b8d@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-07-24T19:48:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WolfeWiki", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90707241048g7129aa8ej65c2235f45e4f555@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Paul,\n\nGo to the bottom of the Contents page, and click the link for \"Discussion\nof edits, structure, etc.\" We're working on that. I've created bogey\ntemplates for story and novel pages, but obviously they can be\nimproved upon.\n\nAlso, look at the page for \"Unrequited Love\" (via the \"Stories Available\nOnline\" link). I'm not suggesting that this is THE WAY to do it, but it's a\nfirst-blush attempt -- this is a wiki, make it better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/24/07, Paul B wrote:\nI noticed that it's not a free-edit Wiki. How hard is it to obtain\npermissions?\n\nFurthermore, what is the spirit of this thing? From what I've seen there\nisn't a lot of consensus about the interpretation, so perhaps the sections\npertaining to places and characters should focus on objective facts to avoid\neditorial battles.\nHowever, I would rather like to see an interpretive FAQ of sorts for the\nstory also, perhaps in a separate section for each of the books.\n\n\nOn 7/24/07, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 7/23/07, Mo Holkar / UKG < lists at ukg.co.uk> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I hope Dan'l won't mind me singling him out for having done some\nterrific work sorting, systematizing and writing." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Why would I mind being singled out for compliments?\n\nI'm trying to systematically *start* pages. But a lot of what I am\ndoing is *just* a start. This is a wiki, and the whole point is to\nmobsource content -- I'd really like people to take the stuff I've\ndone and make it better. In some cases, *much* better.\n\nOne thing that would help a lot is if you would go to the\npages for books that have been started, look at you copies,\nand, if the edition you have isn't listed, add information about\nthat edition (publisher, date, cover artist; if you're feeling\nambitious, add the blurb at the bottom).\n\nThe point is, it's a wiki, edit it! Add content! Don't worry\nabout it not being \"good enough,\" the whole point is tha\nsomeone else will take it as a starting point and make it\nbetter ... in a sense, this is the opposite of \"pedant\ncentral,\" nobody's ego needs to be involved.\n\n--\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\nSoon, where Toon Town once stood will be a string of gas stations,\ninexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire\nsalons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards\nreaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20070724204436.7939F1BBC0@che.dreamhost.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar / UKG", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2007-07-24T20:44:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WolfeWiki", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90707241048g7129aa8ej65c2235f45e4f555@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 18:48 24/07/2007, you wrote:\nI noticed that it's not a free-edit Wiki. How hard is it to obtain \npermissions?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not at all hard -- at the moment, while knowledge of the wiki is \nlimited to members of this list, we're allowing anyone who wants to \nsign up as a contributor:\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Admin.BecomingAnEditor\n\nIf it continues to grow to the point where we observe \"bad\" \ncontributor behaviour, then we'll tighten up on things." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Furthermore, what is the spirit of this thing? From what I've seen \nthere isn't a lot of consensus about the interpretation, so perhaps \nthe sections pertaining to places and characters should focus on \nobjective facts to avoid editorial battles.\nHowever, I would rather like to see an interpretive FAQ of sorts for \nthe story also, perhaps in a separate section for each of the books." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What we've tried to do so far is to create \"rigidly defined areas of \ndoubt and uncertainty\" (in the words of Douglas Adams) -- each work \nhas a factual area and a separate interpretative area. Of course this \nis all up for grabs as the consensus of users evolves, but hopefully \nit's a workable starting situation.\n\nbest wishes,\n\nMo" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "aaron", "address": "aaronsingleton at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-07-25T05:39:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WolfeWiki", "in_reply_to": "<20070724204436.7939F1BBC0@che.dreamhost.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I would love to contribute something. Let me know what section needs the\nmost attention at the present and I will be happy to jump on it. My\nknowledge of Wolfe and his work is pretty thorough, and I am sure most who\npost here could say the same. I do not claim any knowledge about Letters\nHome and a couple of the other rare books, but for the most part, I am\nfamiliar with his body of work. Let me know. Thanks.\n\nAaron Singleton" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20070725171208.F07642018B@che.dreamhost.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar / UKG", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2007-07-25T17:12:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WolfeWiki", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 06:39 25/07/2007, you wrote:\nI would love to contribute something. Let me know what section \nneeds the most attention at the present and I will be happy to jump \non it. My knowledge of Wolfe and his work is pretty thorough, and I \nam sure most who post here could say the same. I do not claim any \nknowledge about Letters Home and a couple of the other rare books, \nbut for the most part, I am familiar with his body of work. Let me \nknow. Thanks.\n\nAaron Singleton" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi Aaron (and anyoen else who's thinking the same),\n\nThat's great! I guess a good place to dive in might be to start \nworking through the individual stories and novels with which you're \nmost familiar / have closest to hand, setting their pages up using \nthe templates:\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Templates.StoryTemplate\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Templates.NovelTemplate\nand filling those in with as much or as little detail as you feel happy to.\n\nDan'l's examples:\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WolfeWiki.TheShadowOfTheTorturer\nhttp://www.holkar.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=OnlineStories.UnrequitedLove\nshow how the templates are intended to be used. The templates \nthemselves are only pro tem, of course, so if you think they could be \nimproved upon, go right ahead.\n\nBut apart from that, please do feel free to add, correct or improve \nanything else that you see as you wander around the site,\n\nbest wishes,\n\nMo" } ] } ] }