{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4898", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4898, "subject": "Wolfe at the Beach: Two Reviews", "messages": 6, "voices": 4, "first": "2007-08-28T16:42:25+00:00", "last": "2007-08-29T03:59:47+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<1188319345.10711.1207696065@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "from": { "name": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus", "address": "lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm" }, "date": "2007-08-28T16:42:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe at the Beach: Two Reviews", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It rained a little bit more than I would have liked on vacation this\nyear so I was able to do a fair amount of reading and not get sand\nkicked in my face (though the wife tried). If, however, you wish to read\n_Pirate Freedom_ without knowing anything at all, you may wish to skip\nthe second half of what follows, though I've attempted to remain spoiler\nneutral.\n\n_Shadows of the New Sun_ is a nice collection of interviews and essays,\nseveral of the former of which are conducted by members or alumni of\nthis list. I'm a big fan of interviews, so mostly I enjoyed them, but\nthere is a fair amount of repetition from interview to interview. I'd\ntherefore not recommend reading them straight through, all in a clump,\nas I did, but to skip around a bit. The same with the essays, which I\ndidn't enjoy quite as much as those in _Castle of Days_ (Wolfe's sense\nof humor may be a little too quirky for me.) It also strikes me as\nstrange that when you get to the final interview editor Wright cautions\nthe reader that \"[Wolfe's] occasionally terse responses should remind\nany critic or commentator that he or she is in the presence of a writer\nevery bit as unreliable as his narrators.\" So--what?--don't take the\ninterviews seriously or just read them as fiction?\n\nI was also appalled at some of the copy editing in this book. There are\nnumerous typos, which doesn't seem so strange when you consider much of\nthe material has been culled from fan sources, but _Shadows_, after all,\nhails from a prestigious academic press and Wright calls further\nattention to the shoddy editing in the introduction by claiming none of\nthe interviews have been changed except to clean up typographical\nerrors. See the fourth full paragraph on p.15 and tell me\nsomeone/something other than a spellchecker has gone over it. My\nfavorite blunder, however, involves Michael Andre-Driussi, who we're\ntold \"is working on a second edition of the Lexicon, which will correct\nmany of the errors as well as adding new ones.\" So I guess that tells us\nwhen Lexicon Urthis 2.0 will come out -- when mantis finishes adding all\nthe new errors! \n\n\n\"As a boy,\" Gene Wolfe has written, \"I was very fond of pirates,\" and\nhis latest offering seems written expressly for that boy. In fact, the\nintended audience for this one seems even more YA than _Wizard Knight_\nthough it's not being marketed as a juvenile, but as fantasy. _Pirate\nFreedom_, however, has *no* fantasy elements unless you wish to count\nFather Chris's temporal displacement (curiously unexamined by the\nnarrator), nor is there much in the way of metaphysical or spiritual\ndithering, considering Chris-the-pirate has taken Holy Orders. Instead,\nwe're treated to a very straight forward historical adventure with many\nasides about the true nature of piracy (as opposed, say, to pop\nversions) and the narrative voice will probably remind you of Wizard's\nAble. Wolfe seems to have lots of fun with his dramatis personae,\nincorporating not only two characters from New Sun, but also naming a\npirate after one of his fellow writers. But far and away, _Pirate\nFreedom_ is Wolfe's least challenging and unoblique novel, with\nvirtually no unsolved mysteries or (for me) lingering resonance. As\nsuch, I took it to be the literary equivalent of a sorbet -- something\nto cleanse the pallet in preparation for more substantial fare to come\n(though I'm not encouraged by the early word on his next two novels)." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Rex Lycanthrosaurus\n lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n-- \nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software\n or over the web" } ] }, { "message_id": "<002a01c7e9b9$52a030c0$86c95a42@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2007-08-28T21:20:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe at the Beach: Two Reviews", "in_reply_to": "<1188319345.10711.1207696065@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just a note to set the facts straight.\n\n-Roy\n----------------------------------------------------------" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus wrote:\nMy\n >favorite blunder, however, involves Michael Andre-Driussi, who we're\ntold \"is working on a second edition of the Lexicon, which will correct\nmany of the errors as well as adding new ones.\" So I guess that tells us\nwhen Lexicon Urthis 2.0 will come out -- when mantis finishes adding all\nthe new errors! " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I forwarded Rex's post to mantis, who wrote:\nRight. Well, given the context, I share Rex's pain at typos--from \nboth sides (reader and publisher), or more sides, if possible.\n\nSetting that aside, the \"blunder\" attributed to Wright is actually \n100% accurate. That is, I said it, or wrote it, and he is repeating \nit verbatim, with perhaps too straight a face." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mantis went on to add:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Again, I understand how he could have taken it as a blunder since he \nwas being irritated by real typos, so I'm not being critical of Rex. \nAnd I can also see how a self-deprecating remark given by myself \nmight lose humor when repeated by another, and even seem deprecating \nor condescending (if not a flat out blunder).\n\n=Michael=" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1188347805.8973.1207772981@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "from": { "name": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus", "address": "lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm" }, "date": "2007-08-29T00:36:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe at the Beach: Two Reviews", "in_reply_to": "<002a01c7e9b9$52a030c0$86c95a42@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Apologies to both mantis and Peter Wright if \"errors\" was deliberate and\na puckish attempt at humor. I thought for sure from the phrasing and\ncontext that \"errors\" had been substituted for \"entries.\" My bad.\n\nAs for Nick Gever's gentle counter-assertion that there are indeed sfnal\nelements in the book, he's right, but they play such an insubstantial\npart in the narrative, that Pirate Freedom would be no different without\nthem. I still certainly have my doubts about the book being \"Fantasy\"\nalthough oddly enough I'll probably vote for Gibson's Spook Country as\nbeing one of my top sf novels for the year.\n\nOne should also keep in mind that Gene Wolfe is a writer of consummate\ngrace, regardless of marketing categories." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I forwarded Rex's post to mantis, who wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Right. Well, given the context, I share Rex's pain at typos--from \nboth sides (reader and publisher), or more sides, if possible.\n\nSetting that aside, the \"blunder\" attributed to Wright is actually \n100% accurate. That is, I said it, or wrote it, and he is repeating \nit verbatim, with perhaps too straight a face." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis went on to add:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Again, I understand how he could have taken it as a blunder since he \nwas being irritated by real typos, so I'm not being critical of Rex. \nAnd I can also see how a self-deprecating remark given by myself \nmight lose humor when repeated by another, and even seem deprecating \nor condescending (if not a flat out blunder).\n\n=Michael=" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Rex Lycanthrosaurus\n lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n-- \nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:\n http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html" } ] }, { "message_id": "<749213.85172.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2007-08-29T01:43:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe at the Beach: Two Reviews", "in_reply_to": "<1188347805.8973.1207772981@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Amen to the Gibson plug...I loved \"Spook...\" although not quite as much as \"Pattern Recognition\"\n Philip K Dick meets Paul Auster\n I just wish he was as prolific as GW and I didn't have to wait so long between releases\n\nRex Lycanthrosaurus wrote:\n Apologies to both mantis and Peter Wright if \"errors\" was deliberate and\na puckish attempt at humor. I thought for sure from the phrasing and\ncontext that \"errors\" had been substituted for \"entries.\" My bad.\n\nAs for Nick Gever's gentle counter-assertion that there are indeed sfnal\nelements in the book, he's right, but they play such an insubstantial\npart in the narrative, that Pirate Freedom would be no different without\nthem. I still certainly have my doubts about the book being \"Fantasy\"\nalthough oddly enough I'll probably vote for Gibson's Spook Country as\nbeing one of my top sf novels for the year.\n\nOne should also keep in mind that Gene Wolfe is a writer of consummate\ngrace, regardless of marketing categories." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I forwarded Rex's post to mantis, who wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Right. Well, given the context, I share Rex's pain at typos--from \nboth sides (reader and publisher), or more sides, if possible.\n\nSetting that aside, the \"blunder\" attributed to Wright is actually \n100% accurate. That is, I said it, or wrote it, and he is repeating \nit verbatim, with perhaps too straight a face." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis went on to add:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Again, I understand how he could have taken it as a blunder since he \nwas being irritated by real typos, so I'm not being critical of Rex. \nAnd I can also see how a self-deprecating remark given by myself \nmight lose humor when repeated by another, and even seem deprecating \nor condescending (if not a flat out blunder).\n\n=Michael=" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus\nlycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n-- \nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:\nhttp://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1188356820.744.1207790373@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "from": { "name": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus", "address": "lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm" }, "date": "2007-08-29T03:07:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe at the Beach: Two Reviews", "in_reply_to": "<749213.85172.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Interestingly, Gibson borrows one of the Wolfe's classic techniques in\n\"Spook Country\" -- i.e., refusing to identify a major character by name,\nin this case \"the old man\" -- although if you've read \"Pattern\nRecognition,\" you can probably guess who he most likely is.\n\nSimilarly, Father Christopher's last name is never stated in Pirate\nFreedom, although Wolfe does provide several clues about its ultimate\nidentity. Perhaps it's even the same as a certain list alumnus -- one\nwith a hard to pronounce Italian name?\n\n\nOn Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:43:11 -0700 (PDT), \"Stuart Hamm\"\n said:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Amen to the Gibson plug...I loved \"Spook...\" although not quite as much\nas \"Pattern Recognition\"\n Philip K Dick meets Paul Auster\n I just wish he was as prolific as GW and I didn't have to wait so long\n between releases" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Rex Lycanthrosaurus\n lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n-- \nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan Rabin", "address": "wolfe-lists at danrabin.com" }, "date": "2007-08-29T03:59:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe at the Beach: Two Reviews", "in_reply_to": "<1188356820.744.1207790373@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just a reminder that _Pirate Freedom_ is not yet published (Amazon US \nand UK both cite November 13 as the release date). It's delightful \nto hear some impressions from early readers, but I (for one) would \nwelcome restraint on the spoiler front.\n\n -- Dan Rabin" } ] } ] }