{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4937", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4937, "subject": "Mantis on some NEW SUN names", "messages": 8, "voices": 7, "first": "2007-11-28T19:08:29+00:00", "last": "2008-01-04T13:53:47+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<000c01c831f2$13438d60$18c85a42@rclackey.stic.net>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2007-11-28T19:08:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mantis on some NEW SUN names", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Rex,\n\nMantis said he couldn't comment on your speculations regarding his surname\nand PIRATE FREEDOM (he hasn't read the book), other than to say that\nChristopher is not any of his names. But he decided to seek the list's input\non the related topic of deciphering three names from NEW SUN. (I tried this\nmonths ago and got nowhere.)\n\n-Roy\n\n-----Original Message-----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Michael Andre-Driussi \nTo: Roy C. Lackey \nDate: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:35 AM\nSubject: Re: Fw: (urth) Chris' last name *Pirate freedom*\nHello there Roy,\n\nOn the topic of decoding names, this seems like a perfect opportunity\nfor challenging readers to crack \"the bloody three,\" the names called\nout at the Sanguinary Field:\n\nLaurentia of the House of the Harp\nCadroe of the Seventeen Stones\nSabas of the Parted Meadow\n\nThe first names are not an issue here, the \"last names\" are.\n\nIn PLAN[E]T ENGINEERING, Wolfe shows a bit of his onomastic bent by\ntranslating several names:\n\nLarry Niven = the Man from the Snows of Laurentum\nKate Wilhelm = the Pure Woman With the Desirable Helmet\nGene Wolfe = a Wolf Is Born\nDavid Hartwell = the Beloved Man From the Spring Where the Deer Come to\nDrink\nVincent Di Fate = the Liege of the Conqueror From Faerie\n\nI think the bloody three are just like the right column names, that\nis, I sense that the names are coded versions of real names that we\nwould recognize.\n\nI believe that the first letter of each first name is true to the\ninitial of the real name, giving us:\n\nL. \"House of the Harp\"\nC. \"Seventeen Stones\"\nS. \"Parted Meadow\"\n\n\"House of the Harp\" couldn't be simply \"Harper,\" since that would\nlack the house part. \"House of the Harp\" has a Tolkien ring to it\n, but let's not be distracted by that.\n\n\"Seventeen Stones\" has a powerful link to the Group of Seventeen, to\nbe sure. Historically there are also stone rings in the British\nIsles and an old cemetery of slaves in the US. I find it very\ndifficult to reverse engineer a surname from \"seventeen,\" but maybe\nI'm looking at it the wrong way.\n\n\"Parted Meadow\" seems more accommodating than the other two, giving\nus names like Spalding. At times it seems like this full name\ndecoded might be \"Sprague de Camp.\"\n\nSo there it is, a contest of sorts. Get cracking!\n\n=Michael=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-11-28T19:50:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mantis on some NEW SUN names", "in_reply_to": "<000c01c831f2$13438d60$18c85a42@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Here's some initial thoughts:\n\nLaurentia is the feminine version of Laurentium, so if Laurentium = \nLawrence (Larry) then Laurentia should = Laura or something similar.\n\nCadroe probably refers to St. Cadroe, a Scottish saint educated in \nIreland. Stone might refer to a rock or an archaic measure of weight.\n\nSabas is also a saintly name; I can't tie to to \"Sprague de Camp,\" \nthough. I know the L stands for Lyon or something like that, though.\n\nLane" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Nov 28, 2007, at 1:08 PM, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nRex,\n\nMantis said he couldn't comment on your speculations regarding his \nsurname\nand PIRATE FREEDOM (he hasn't read the book), other than to say that\nChristopher is not any of his names. But he decided to seek the \nlist's input\non the related topic of deciphering three names from NEW SUN. (I \ntried this\nmonths ago and got nowhere.)\n\n-Roy\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Michael Andre-Driussi \nTo: Roy C. Lackey \nDate: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:35 AM\nSubject: Re: Fw: (urth) Chris' last name *Pirate freedom*" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hello there Roy,\n\nOn the topic of decoding names, this seems like a perfect opportunity\nfor challenging readers to crack \"the bloody three,\" the names called\nout at the Sanguinary Field:\n\nLaurentia of the House of the Harp\nCadroe of the Seventeen Stones\nSabas of the Parted Meadow\n\nThe first names are not an issue here, the \"last names\" are.\n\nIn PLAN[E]T ENGINEERING, Wolfe shows a bit of his onomastic bent by\ntranslating several names:\n\nLarry Niven = the Man from the Snows of Laurentum\nKate Wilhelm = the Pure Woman With the Desirable Helmet\nGene Wolfe = a Wolf Is Born\nDavid Hartwell = the Beloved Man From the Spring Where the Deer \nCome to\nDrink\nVincent Di Fate = the Liege of the Conqueror From Faerie\n\nI think the bloody three are just like the right column names, that\nis, I sense that the names are coded versions of real names that we\nwould recognize.\n\nI believe that the first letter of each first name is true to the\ninitial of the real name, giving us:\n\nL. \"House of the Harp\"\nC. \"Seventeen Stones\"\nS. \"Parted Meadow\"\n\n\"House of the Harp\" couldn't be simply \"Harper,\" since that would\nlack the house part. \"House of the Harp\" has a Tolkien ring to it\n, but let's not be distracted by that.\n\n\"Seventeen Stones\" has a powerful link to the Group of Seventeen, to\nbe sure. Historically there are also stone rings in the British\nIsles and an old cemetery of slaves in the US. I find it very\ndifficult to reverse engineer a surname from \"seventeen,\" but maybe\nI'm looking at it the wrong way.\n\n\"Parted Meadow\" seems more accommodating than the other two, giving\nus names like Spalding. At times it seems like this full name\ndecoded might be \"Sprague de Camp.\"\n\nSo there it is, a contest of sorts. Get cracking!\n\n=Michael=" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1049EA3F-BB96-4256-BF6D-3C4A5B8A6D0B@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2007-11-28T20:19:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mantis on some NEW SUN names", "in_reply_to": "<000c01c831f2$13438d60$18c85a42@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Nov 28, 2007, at 1:08 PM, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nI believe that the first letter of each first name is true to the\ninitial of the real name, giving us:\n\nL. \"House of the Harp\"\nC. \"Seventeen Stones\"\nS. \"Parted Meadow\"\n\n\"House of the Harp\" couldn't be simply \"Harper,\" since that would\nlack the house part. \"House of the Harp\" has a Tolkien ring to it\n, but let's not be distracted by that." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have no solutions yet. Just this: \"Parted Meadow\" makes \n\"Rivendell\" rather nicely.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1196317657.24922.1223836263@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "from": { "name": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus", "address": "lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm" }, "date": "2007-11-29T06:27:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mantis on some NEW SUN names", "in_reply_to": "<000c01c831f2$13438d60$18c85a42@rclackey.stic.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On the topic of decoding names, this seems like a perfect opportunity\nfor challenging readers to crack \"the bloody three,\" the names called\nout at the Sanguinary Field:\n\nLaurentia of the House of the Harp\nCadroe of the Seventeen Stones\nSabas of the Parted Meadow\n\nThe first names are not an issue here, the \"last names\" are.\n\n\"Seventeen Stones\" has a powerful link to the Group of Seventeen, to\nbe sure. Historically there are also stone rings in the British\nIsles and an old cemetery of slaves in the US. I find it very\ndifficult to reverse engineer a surname from \"seventeen,\" but maybe\nI'm looking at it the wrong way." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Harpers Magazine runs brain-stretching puzzles similar to this every\nissue and I've never been particularly good at solving them, but I'll\ngladly take a crack at Cadroe of the Seventeen Stones.\n\nAs anyone who has ever been to Scotland knows, *cod* roe is one of its\nnational delicacies (especially the smoked variety). And since Seventeen\nStones can be rearranged to spell Stevenson, could this be a reference\nto Scottish writer Robert Louis Stevenson? " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Rex Lycanthrosaurus\n lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n-- \nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and\n love email again" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5675.67.142.130.13.1196318559.squirrel@www.brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2007-11-29T06:42:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mantis on some NEW SUN names", "in_reply_to": "<1196317657.24922.1223836263@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It seems that you are assuming that the names relate to some influence or\nother? Has there been any discussion of Stevensonian influences?\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On the topic of decoding names, this seems like a perfect opportunity\nfor challenging readers to crack \"the bloody three,\" the names called\nout at the Sanguinary Field:\n\nLaurentia of the House of the Harp\nCadroe of the Seventeen Stones\nSabas of the Parted Meadow\n\nThe first names are not an issue here, the \"last names\" are.\n\n\"Seventeen Stones\" has a powerful link to the Group of Seventeen, to\nbe sure. Historically there are also stone rings in the British\nIsles and an old cemetery of slaves in the US. I find it very\ndifficult to reverse engineer a surname from \"seventeen,\" but maybe\nI'm looking at it the wrong way." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Harpers Magazine runs brain-stretching puzzles similar to this every\nissue and I've never been particularly good at solving them, but I'll\ngladly take a crack at Cadroe of the Seventeen Stones.\n\nAs anyone who has ever been to Scotland knows, *cod* roe is one of its\nnational delicacies (especially the smoked variety). And since Seventeen\nStones can be rearranged to spell Stevenson, could this be a reference\nto Scottish writer Robert Louis Stevenson?\n\n\n\n\n--\n Rex Lycanthrosaurus\n lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n--\nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and\n love email again\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1196325072.10313.1223847771@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "from": { "name": "Rex Lycanthrosaurus", "address": "lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm" }, "date": "2007-11-29T08:31:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mantis on some NEW SUN names", "in_reply_to": "<5675.67.142.130.13.1196318559.squirrel@www.brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:42:39 -0500 (EST), brunians at brunians.org said:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It seems that you are assuming that the names relate to some influence or\nother? Has there been any discussion of Stevensonian influences?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nothing that I'm aware of, though I haven't read all of the lycocentric\nlitt?rature, but at least one short story (\"The Walking Stick\") draws\ndirectly on \"Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde\" (a parallel perhaps\nof the Thecla/Severian relationship?), while a residue of \"Treasure\nIsland\" might be intrinsic to _Pirate Freedom._ (Alas, I've never been\nable to find any connection between Stevenson's \"Imp in the Bottle\" and\nthe mandragora.)" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Rex Lycanthrosaurus\n lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm\n\n-- \nhttp://www.fastmail.fm - The professional email service" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10801040017o5eacad95u19204721ee6ca391@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-01-04T08:17:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mantis on some NEW SUN names", "in_reply_to": "<1196325072.10313.1223847771@webmail.messagingengine.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Perhaps \"Seventeen Stones\" could be a reference to weight (1 stone =\n14 pounds). Then again, I'm not sure if there's anything we can do\nwith 238 pounds, unless Wolfe is commenting on some friend's size\nhere, not their name.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<746911.46247.qm@web58203.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-01-04T13:53:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mantis on some NEW SUN names", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10801040017o5eacad95u19204721ee6ca391@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As someone who obsesses about weight unnaturally from\nyears of boxing at 126 lbs, I found it interesting\nwhen Wolfe described Severian in an interview, saying\nhe was about 6'1'' or taller and maybe 170 pounds. So\nwe've got a Bernard Hopkins style Severian. Sev\ncertainly isn't a heavyweight.\n\nSeventeen stones is almost certainly too heavy to fit\nSev and far too light for Baldanders." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Matthew Keeley wrote:\nPerhaps \"Seventeen Stones\" could be a reference to\nweight (1 stone =\n14 pounds). Then again, I'm not sure if there's\nanything we can do\nwith 238 pounds, unless Wolfe is commenting on some\nfriend's size\nhere, not their name.\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }