# Mantis on some NEW SUN names *The Urth list — 8 messages, 7 voices, 28 Nov 2007* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Roy C. Lackey *28 Nov 2007, 19:08* Rex, Mantis said he couldn't comment on your speculations regarding his surname and PIRATE FREEDOM (he hasn't read the book), other than to say that Christopher is not any of his names. But he decided to seek the list's input on the related topic of deciphering three names from NEW SUN. (I tried this months ago and got nowhere.) -Roy -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Andre-Driussi > To: Roy C. Lackey > Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:35 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: (urth) Chris' last name *Pirate freedom* > Hello there Roy, > > On the topic of decoding names, this seems like a perfect opportunity > for challenging readers to crack "the bloody three," the names called > out at the Sanguinary Field: > > Laurentia of the House of the Harp > Cadroe of the Seventeen Stones > Sabas of the Parted Meadow > > The first names are not an issue here, the "last names" are. > > In PLAN[E]T ENGINEERING, Wolfe shows a bit of his onomastic bent by > translating several names: > > Larry Niven = the Man from the Snows of Laurentum > Kate Wilhelm = the Pure Woman With the Desirable Helmet > Gene Wolfe = a Wolf Is Born > David Hartwell = the Beloved Man From the Spring Where the Deer Come to > Drink > Vincent Di Fate = the Liege of the Conqueror From Faerie > > I think the bloody three are just like the right column names, that > is, I sense that the names are coded versions of real names that we > would recognize. > > I believe that the first letter of each first name is true to the > initial of the real name, giving us: > > L. "House of the Harp" > C. "Seventeen Stones" > S. "Parted Meadow" > > "House of the Harp" couldn't be simply "Harper," since that would > lack the house part. "House of the Harp" has a Tolkien ring to it > , but let's not be distracted by that. > > "Seventeen Stones" has a powerful link to the Group of Seventeen, to > be sure. Historically there are also stone rings in the British > Isles and an old cemetery of slaves in the US. I find it very > difficult to reverse engineer a surname from "seventeen," but maybe > I'm looking at it the wrong way. > > "Parted Meadow" seems more accommodating than the other two, giving > us names like Spalding. At times it seems like this full name > decoded might be "Sprague de Camp." > > So there it is, a contest of sorts. Get cracking! > > =Michael= --- ### Lane Haygood *28 Nov 2007, 19:50 · in reply to Roy C. Lackey* Here's some initial thoughts: Laurentia is the feminine version of Laurentium, so if Laurentium = Lawrence (Larry) then Laurentia should = Laura or something similar. Cadroe probably refers to St. Cadroe, a Scottish saint educated in Ireland. Stone might refer to a rock or an archaic measure of weight. Sabas is also a saintly name; I can't tie to to "Sprague de Camp," though. I know the L stands for Lyon or something like that, though. Lane > On Nov 28, 2007, at 1:08 PM, Roy C. Lackey wrote: > Rex, > > Mantis said he couldn't comment on your speculations regarding his > surname > and PIRATE FREEDOM (he hasn't read the book), other than to say that > Christopher is not any of his names. But he decided to seek the > list's input > on the related topic of deciphering three names from NEW SUN. (I > tried this > months ago and got nowhere.) > > -Roy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Andre-Driussi > To: Roy C. Lackey > Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:35 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: (urth) Chris' last name *Pirate freedom* >> Hello there Roy, >> >> On the topic of decoding names, this seems like a perfect opportunity >> for challenging readers to crack "the bloody three," the names called >> out at the Sanguinary Field: >> >> Laurentia of the House of the Harp >> Cadroe of the Seventeen Stones >> Sabas of the Parted Meadow >> >> The first names are not an issue here, the "last names" are. >> >> In PLAN[E]T ENGINEERING, Wolfe shows a bit of his onomastic bent by >> translating several names: >> >> Larry Niven = the Man from the Snows of Laurentum >> Kate Wilhelm = the Pure Woman With the Desirable Helmet >> Gene Wolfe = a Wolf Is Born >> David Hartwell = the Beloved Man From the Spring Where the Deer >> Come to >> Drink >> Vincent Di Fate = the Liege of the Conqueror From Faerie >> >> I think the bloody three are just like the right column names, that >> is, I sense that the names are coded versions of real names that we >> would recognize. >> >> I believe that the first letter of each first name is true to the >> initial of the real name, giving us: >> >> L. "House of the Harp" >> C. "Seventeen Stones" >> S. "Parted Meadow" >> >> "House of the Harp" couldn't be simply "Harper," since that would >> lack the house part. "House of the Harp" has a Tolkien ring to it >> , but let's not be distracted by that. >> >> "Seventeen Stones" has a powerful link to the Group of Seventeen, to >> be sure. Historically there are also stone rings in the British >> Isles and an old cemetery of slaves in the US. I find it very >> difficult to reverse engineer a surname from "seventeen," but maybe >> I'm looking at it the wrong way. >> >> "Parted Meadow" seems more accommodating than the other two, giving >> us names like Spalding. At times it seems like this full name >> decoded might be "Sprague de Camp." >> >> So there it is, a contest of sorts. Get cracking! >> >> =Michael= > _______________________________________________ --- ### Adam Thornton *28 Nov 2007, 20:19 · in reply to Roy C. Lackey* >> On Nov 28, 2007, at 1:08 PM, Roy C. Lackey wrote: >> I believe that the first letter of each first name is true to the >> initial of the real name, giving us: >> >> L. "House of the Harp" >> C. "Seventeen Stones" >> S. "Parted Meadow" >> >> "House of the Harp" couldn't be simply "Harper," since that would >> lack the house part. "House of the Harp" has a Tolkien ring to it >> , but let's not be distracted by that. I have no solutions yet. Just this: "Parted Meadow" makes "Rivendell" rather nicely. Adam --- ### Rex Lycanthrosaurus *29 Nov 2007, 06:27 · in reply to Roy C. Lackey* >> On the topic of decoding names, this seems like a perfect opportunity >> for challenging readers to crack "the bloody three," the names called >> out at the Sanguinary Field: >> >> Laurentia of the House of the Harp >> Cadroe of the Seventeen Stones >> Sabas of the Parted Meadow >> >> The first names are not an issue here, the "last names" are. >> >> "Seventeen Stones" has a powerful link to the Group of Seventeen, to >> be sure. Historically there are also stone rings in the British >> Isles and an old cemetery of slaves in the US. I find it very >> difficult to reverse engineer a surname from "seventeen," but maybe >> I'm looking at it the wrong way. Harpers Magazine runs brain-stretching puzzles similar to this every issue and I've never been particularly good at solving them, but I'll gladly take a crack at Cadroe of the Seventeen Stones. As anyone who has ever been to Scotland knows, *cod* roe is one of its national delicacies (especially the smoked variety). And since Seventeen Stones can be rearranged to spell Stevenson, could this be a reference to Scottish writer Robert Louis Stevenson? ``` Rex Lycanthrosaurus lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and love email again ``` --- ### brunians at brunians.org *29 Nov 2007, 06:42 · in reply to Rex Lycanthrosaurus* It seems that you are assuming that the names relate to some influence or other? Has there been any discussion of Stevensonian influences? . >>> On the topic of decoding names, this seems like a perfect opportunity >>> for challenging readers to crack "the bloody three," the names called >>> out at the Sanguinary Field: >>> >>> Laurentia of the House of the Harp >>> Cadroe of the Seventeen Stones >>> Sabas of the Parted Meadow >>> >>> The first names are not an issue here, the "last names" are. >>> >>> "Seventeen Stones" has a powerful link to the Group of Seventeen, to >>> be sure. Historically there are also stone rings in the British >>> Isles and an old cemetery of slaves in the US. I find it very >>> difficult to reverse engineer a surname from "seventeen," but maybe >>> I'm looking at it the wrong way. > Harpers Magazine runs brain-stretching puzzles similar to this every > issue and I've never been particularly good at solving them, but I'll > gladly take a crack at Cadroe of the Seventeen Stones. > > As anyone who has ever been to Scotland knows, *cod* roe is one of its > national delicacies (especially the smoked variety). And since Seventeen > Stones can be rearranged to spell Stevenson, could this be a reference > to Scottish writer Robert Louis Stevenson? > > > > > -- > Rex Lycanthrosaurus > lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and > love email again > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Rex Lycanthrosaurus *29 Nov 2007, 08:31 · in reply to brunians at brunians.org* On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:42:39 -0500 (EST), brunians at brunians.org said: > It seems that you are assuming that the names relate to some influence or > other? Has there been any discussion of Stevensonian influences? Nothing that I'm aware of, though I haven't read all of the lycocentric litt?rature, but at least one short story ("The Walking Stick") draws directly on "Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde" (a parallel perhaps of the Thecla/Severian relationship?), while a residue of "Treasure Island" might be intrinsic to _Pirate Freedom._ (Alas, I've never been able to find any connection between Stevenson's "Imp in the Bottle" and the mandragora.) ``` Rex Lycanthrosaurus lycanthrosaurus at fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The professional email service ``` --- ### Matthew Keeley *04 Jan 2008, 08:17 · in reply to Rex Lycanthrosaurus* Perhaps "Seventeen Stones" could be a reference to weight (1 stone = 14 pounds). Then again, I'm not sure if there's anything we can do with 238 pounds, unless Wolfe is commenting on some friend's size here, not their name. -Matt --- ### Marc Aramini *04 Jan 2008, 13:53 · in reply to Matthew Keeley* As someone who obsesses about weight unnaturally from years of boxing at 126 lbs, I found it interesting when Wolfe described Severian in an interview, saying he was about 6'1'' or taller and maybe 170 pounds. So we've got a Bernard Hopkins style Severian. Sev certainly isn't a heavyweight. Seventeen stones is almost certainly too heavy to fit Sev and far too light for Baldanders. > --- Matthew Keeley wrote: > Perhaps "Seventeen Stones" could be a reference to > weight (1 stone = > 14 pounds). Then again, I'm not sure if there's > anything we can do > with 238 pounds, unless Wolfe is commenting on some > friend's size > here, not their name. > > -Matt > _______________________________________________ ---