# "Memorare" hardcover *The Urth list — 10 messages, 7 voices, 06 Dec 2007* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Matthew Groves *06 Dec 2007, 01:23* Is the List aware of this?: http://wyrmpublishing.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=12 Does "Memorare" remind anyone else of Niven-esque "hard" sf? (Will anyone else admit to having read Niven?) --- ### brunians at brunians.org *06 Dec 2007, 02:39 · in reply to Matthew Groves* I've read Niven. He's a good SF writer, if not the best or second best prose stylist in the World. Nice guy, too. . > Is the List aware of this?: > > http://wyrmpublishing.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=12 > > Does "Memorare" remind anyone else of Niven-esque "hard" sf? (Will > anyone else admit to having read Niven?) > _______________________________________________ --- ### Adam Thornton *06 Dec 2007, 04:13 · in reply to brunians at brunians.org* > On Dec 5, 2007, at 8:39 PM, brunians at brunians.org wrote: > I've read Niven. > > He's a good SF writer, if not the best or second best prose stylist > in the > World. Nice guy, too. I've also read a lot of Niven. I concur with the above, although I have no reason to know his nice- guy-or-notness. Adam --- ### Recursive Loop *06 Dec 2007, 04:35 · in reply to Matthew Groves* "(Will anyone else admit to having read Niven?)" Sure. Tons through the 80's. Known Space was one of my favorite haunts. Around the time of the third RW novel and a few other things, I lost interest. But I'll go back and visit again someday. FPK3 --- ### Jeff Wilson *07 Dec 2007, 05:09 · in reply to Matthew Groves* > Matthew Groves wrote: > Is the List aware of this?: > > http://wyrmpublishing.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=12 > > Does "Memorare" remind anyone else of Niven-esque "hard" sf? (Will > anyone else admit to having read Niven?) Sure thing. But, he's not truly a hard SF writer, though he puts on such a good show that most people don't notice he's swept the fossil record under the rug, for example. ``` Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson > ``` --- ### Matthew King *07 Dec 2007, 18:22 · in reply to Jeff Wilson* >> On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:09 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote: >> (Will >> anyone else admit to having read Niven?) > Sure thing. But, he's not truly a hard SF writer, though he puts on > such > a good show that most people don't notice he's swept the fossil record > under the rug, for example. Do you mean the Protector-breeder origin of humans? --- ### Michael Straight *07 Dec 2007, 23:18 · in reply to Jeff Wilson* Everything I know about Science I had to re-learn after having read Niven in my teens. :-) Fun stuff, though. And yeah, Memorare's plot and setting both have the flavor of a Niven-era SF short story, if not Niven himself. Rostrum --- ### Matthew Groves *08 Dec 2007, 06:00 · in reply to Matthew King* > On Dec 7, 2007 12:22 PM, Matthew King wrote: > On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:09 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote: >> [Niven is] not truly a hard SF writer, though he puts on >> such >> a good show that most people don't notice he's swept the fossil record >> under the rug, for example. > Do you mean the Protector-breeder origin of humans? I did have that reaction when I read Protector: If the breeders where homo habilis, then why does homo habilis seem to share ancestory with other Terran species? However, from what I've read of Niven's, his greatest sin against scientific plausibility, in my opinion, is "luck breeding." --- ### Jeff Wilson *08 Dec 2007, 16:00 · in reply to Matthew King* > Matthew King wrote: > On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:09 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote: >>> (Will >>> anyone else admit to having read Niven?) >> Sure thing. But, he's not truly a hard SF writer, though he puts on >> such >> a good show that most people don't notice he's swept the fossil record >> under the rug, for example. > Do you mean the Protector-breeder origin of humans? That in particular, yes. ``` Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson > ``` --- ### Jeff Wilson *08 Dec 2007, 16:08 · in reply to Matthew Groves* > Matthew Groves wrote: > On Dec 7, 2007 12:22 PM, Matthew King wrote: >> On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:09 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote: >>> [Niven is] not truly a hard SF writer, though he puts on >>> such >>> a good show that most people don't notice he's swept the fossil record >>> under the rug, for example. >> Do you mean the Protector-breeder origin of humans? > I did have that reaction when I read Protector: If the breeders where > homo habilis, then why does homo habilis seem to share ancestory with > other Terran species? The shared ancestry among primates is explained by induced mutation, but no explanation is made to connect primates with the rest of earthly life. > However, from what I've read of Niven's, his greatest sin against > scientific plausibility, in my opinion, is "luck breeding." To be sure, that part is metafictional one-upmanship rather than an integral part of the plot. Psi powers were very popular among genre fiction at the time, and it's hard to top the power to control the author/editor/publisher. ``` Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson > ``` ---