{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4946", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4946, "subject": "PF Chronology", "messages": 5, "voices": 3, "first": "2007-12-08T13:57:17+00:00", "last": "2008-01-04T07:49:14+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<20071208135717.8CA812283E@mailserver10.hushmail.com>", "from": { "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com", "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com" }, "date": "2007-12-08T13:57:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) PF Chronology", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I come to the following conclusions:\n\n- Chris1's \"birthday\" is around about now; 2007.\n- Chris2 is writing in about 2017.\n- Chris2 appeared from the past around about the same time as \nChris1 was born, so 2007 again (interesting ...)\n- The pirate-action happens in about 1675.\n\nHere's how I get there. First, we have some information about \nvarious events in Chris1's time-line:\n\nA: \"Born\"\nB: Goes to Cuba\nC: Enters monastery school\nD: Begins novitiate\nE: Ends novitiate & goes to past\nF: Goes forward again\n\nWe know:\n\nB = A+10 (he goes to Cuba at age 10).\nC = A+13 (approx: he went to school \"a few years\" after arriving in \nCuba).\nD = A+16 (approx: \"A year seems like a lifetime at that age, so \nthree or maybe four lifetimes passed before I went from being a \nstudent to being a novice ...\")\nE = A+17 (a novitiate normally lasting one year?)\nF = A+19 (or less: the pirate-time doesn't seem to have been more \nthan this to me.)\n\nFor Chris2, we know he is 28 or 29 when he goes to Cuba to become \nIgnacio: he's 28 at the time of his interview with Bishop Scully, \nwith maybe a birthday before he finishes writing. Assuming \"F\" \nabove is right, he was 19 when he appeared from the past, so that \nwas about ten years before he heads to Cuba. \n\nAnd so, assuming he goes to Cuba at around \"B\", when Chris1 and his \nfather go, the date of his appearance from the past must have been \naround about \"A\". \n\nIn other words, he comes back at about the same time he was \"born\". \n\n\nWe have reasonable dating for the \"past\" action. Captain Burt \nspeaks of Drake in the Golden Hind sailing around the world \"almost \na hundred years ago\". This voyage lasted from 1577 through 1580. \nLet's say \"E\" = 1675.\n\nWe can use this to kludge up an estimate for the \"present\" datings. \nAt the very end of the book, Chris2 says: \"Today .. we have been \ndead 300 years\". This is rubbery, but let's assume that Chris2 \nassumes he's going to live a three-score-and-ten. That gives him \nanother 41 or 42 years at the time he's writing. So, back in the \n\"past\", he would live until about 1675+42 = 1717. Three hundred \nyears on from then is 2017.\n\nThat fixes an approximate date for \"B\", the date when Chris1 and \n(presumably) Chris2 both arrive in Cuba - about 10 years into our \nfuture. And Chris1 is being decanted from his test-tube or whatever \njust about now." } ] }, { "message_id": "<39ed084f0712080736r4eedbc97xa30c64e92d7b2b4@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Groves", "address": "matthewalangroves at gmail.com" }, "date": "2007-12-08T15:36:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) PF Chronology", "in_reply_to": "<20071208135717.8CA812283E@mailserver10.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 8, 2007 7:57 AM, wrote:\nI come to the following conclusions:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "A: \"Born\" [2007]\nB: Goes to Cuba [2017]\nC: Enters monastery school [ca. 2020]\nD: Begins novitiate [ca. 2023-4]\nE: Ends novitiate & goes to past [to ca. 1675]\nF: Goes forward again [to 2007]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "[ G: Fr. Chris begins writing in 2017]\n[ H: Fr. Chris returns to Cuba in 2018]\n\nWell done. Happy birthday Chris." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "We have reasonable dating for the \"past\" action. Captain Burt\nspeaks of Drake in the Golden Hind sailing around the world \"almost\na hundred years ago\". This voyage lasted from 1577 through 1580.\nLet's say \"E\" = 1675." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Also, Capt. Burt mentions that Panama City has been rebuilt and\nreinforced since Capt. Morgan burned it. That occurred in 1670, and\nPanama City was rebuilt in 1673. So the events of the novel must take\nplace sometime after 1673 and before 1680. 1675 sounds good to me.\n\nAnd doesn't this quote seem suggestive: \"A year seems like a lifetime\nat that age, so\nthree or maybe four lifetimes passed before I went from being a\nstudent to being a novice....\" -- not only for its hint about Chris's\nmultiple lifetimes, but for its possible implications about the time\nline:\n\nLet's say Chris is drifting backwards in time one lifetime (70 years)\nfor every year he is at the monastery. For three or four years he is\na student, and for another year or so he is a novice. Let's call it\nsomewhat less than 5 years total at the monastery, meaning Chris\ndrifts back somewhat less than 350 years. Assuming, from your\ncalculations, that Chris entered the monastery in 2020, that means he\nexits the gates sometime after 1670, which accords pretty well with\nyour \"E\" and with the burning of Panama.\n\nOn another subject, what to make of Chris's many references to saints?\n He reads about their lives, teaches kids what being a saint means,\npreaches about saints at midnight mass on Christmas eve...." } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10801031419k67290051mfe3b3341346aaf53@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-01-03T22:19:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) PF Chronology", "in_reply_to": "<39ed084f0712080736r4eedbc97xa30c64e92d7b2b4@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 8, 2007 3:36 PM, Matthew Groves wrote:\nOn another subject, what to make of Chris's many references to saints?\n He reads about their lives, teaches kids what being a saint means,\npreaches about saints at midnight mass on Christmas eve...." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, one could put it down to an Italian or Mafioso reverence for the saints.\n\nAnd of course, there's a reference to St. Catharine, which actually\nmade me laugh when I read it.\n\nI think there's more to it, though I'm not quite sure WHAT yet.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20080104031349.A3E9250038@mailserver9.hushmail.com>", "from": { "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com", "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com" }, "date": "2008-01-04T03:13:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) PF Chronology", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10801031419k67290051mfe3b3341346aaf53@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:19:55 +1100 Matthew Keeley \n wrote:\nOn Dec 8, 2007 3:36 PM, Matthew Groves \n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On another subject, what to make of Chris's many references to \nsaints?\n He reads about their lives, teaches kids what being a saint \nmeans,\npreaches about saints at midnight mass on Christmas eve...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, one could put it down to an Italian or Mafioso reverence for " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "the saints.\n\nAnd of course, there's a reference to St. Catharine, which \nactually\nmade me laugh when I read it.\n\nI think there's more to it, though I'm not quite sure WHAT yet." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I was struck by how many of the female saints (Lucy, Agatha, \nCatherine, umm another one?) were tortured and matyred for refusing \nthe marriage proposals or amorous advances of pagans. I wondered \nwhether this connected somehow with the absence of any mention of a \nmother for Chris, but couldn't do much with that. Perhaps it's just \na common trope in the hagiograsphy of early female saints.\n\nSt Joan crops up also, I think. FWIW, one of the formal charges \nagainst St Joan was wearing men's clothing, apparently - which \nmakes you think of Novia. \n\nWikipedia says Joan reverted to wearing men's clothing in prison \nafter being raped, to avoid it happening again. That brings back \none of the questions I have: why isn't Novia much more raped than \nshe seems to be in Chris' narrative? Chris is raped immediately on \nhis first ship; how does Novia-as-boy escape? And what about the \nperiods where Novia and Chris are stuck on different ships etc? " } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10801032349y396a7c09l39693dfc5cf03996@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-01-04T07:49:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) PF Chronology", "in_reply_to": "<20080104031349.A3E9250038@mailserver9.hushmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 4, 2008 3:13 AM, wrote:\n\nWikipedia says Joan reverted to wearing men's clothing in prison\nafter being raped, to avoid it happening again. That brings back\none of the questions I have: why isn't Novia much more raped than\nshe seems to be in Chris' narrative? Chris is raped immediately on\nhis first ship; how does Novia-as-boy escape? And what about the\nperiods where Novia and Chris are stuck on different ships etc?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think Novia hides a lot from Chris. At one point Chris claims that\nhe thinks nothing ever happened to her, but he's not sure. If Novia\nwere raped, that would explain her desire for knives and guns.\n\n-Matt" } ] } ] }