Subject: (urth) PF Chronology

From: thalassocrat at nym.hush.com <thalassocrat at nym.hush.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 13:57:17 +0000

I come to the following conclusions:

- Chris1's "birthday" is around about now; 2007.
- Chris2 is writing in about 2017.
- Chris2 appeared from the past around about the same time as 
Chris1 was born, so 2007 again (interesting ...)
- The pirate-action happens in about 1675.

Here's how I get there. First, we have some information about 
various events in Chris1's time-line:

A: "Born"
B: Goes to Cuba
C: Enters monastery school
D: Begins novitiate
E: Ends novitiate & goes to past
F: Goes forward again

We know:

B = A+10 (he goes to Cuba at age 10).
C = A+13 (approx: he went to school "a few years" after arriving in 
Cuba).
D = A+16 (approx: "A year seems like a lifetime at that age, so 
three or maybe four lifetimes passed before I went from being a 
student to being a novice ...")
E = A+17 (a novitiate normally lasting one year?)
F = A+19 (or less: the pirate-time doesn't seem to have been more 
than this to me.)

For Chris2, we know he is 28 or 29 when he goes to Cuba to become 
Ignacio: he's 28 at the time of his interview with Bishop Scully, 
with maybe a birthday before he finishes writing. Assuming "F" 
above is right, he was 19 when he appeared from the past, so that 
was about ten years before he heads to Cuba. 

And so, assuming he goes to Cuba at around "B", when Chris1 and his 
father go, the date of his appearance from the past must have been 
around about "A". 

In other words, he comes back at about the same time he was "born". 

We have reasonable dating for the "past" action.  Captain Burt 
speaks of Drake in the Golden Hind sailing around the world "almost 
a hundred years ago". This voyage lasted from 1577 through 1580. 
Let's say "E" = 1675.

We can use this to kludge up an estimate for the "present" datings. 
At the very end of the book, Chris2 says: "Today .. we have been 
dead 300 years". This is rubbery, but let's assume that Chris2 
assumes he's going to live a three-score-and-ten. That gives him 
another 41 or 42 years at the time he's writing. So, back in the 
"past", he would live until about 1675+42 = 1717. Three hundred 
years on from then is 2017.

That fixes an approximate date for "B", the date when Chris1 and 
(presumably) Chris2 both arrive in Cuba - about 10 years into our 
future. And Chris1 is being decanted from his test-tube or whatever 
just about now.

---

From: Matthew Groves <matthewalangroves at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:36:39 +0000

> A: "Born" [2007]
> B: Goes to Cuba [2017]
> C: Enters monastery school [ca. 2020]
> D: Begins novitiate [ca. 2023-4]
> E: Ends novitiate & goes to past [to ca. 1675]
> F: Goes forward again [to 2007]
[ G: Fr. Chris begins writing in 2017]
[ H: Fr. Chris returns to Cuba in 2018]

Well done.  Happy birthday Chris.

> a hundred years ago". This voyage lasted from 1577 through 1580.

Also, Capt. Burt mentions that Panama City has been rebuilt and
reinforced since Capt. Morgan burned it.  That occurred in 1670, and
Panama City was rebuilt in 1673.  So the events of the novel must take
place sometime after 1673 and before 1680.  1675 sounds good to me.

And doesn't this quote seem suggestive: "A year seems like a lifetime
at that age, so
three or maybe four lifetimes passed before I went from being a
student to being a novice...." -- not only for its hint about Chris's
multiple lifetimes, but for its possible implications about the time
line:

Let's say Chris is drifting backwards in time one lifetime (70 years)
for every year he is at the monastery.  For three or four years he is
a student, and for another year or so he is a novice.  Let's call it
somewhat less than 5 years total at the monastery, meaning Chris
drifts back somewhat less than 350 years.  Assuming, from your
calculations, that Chris entered the monastery in 2020, that means he
exits the gates sometime after 1670, which accords pretty well with
your "E" and with the burning of Panama.

On another subject, what to make of Chris's many references to saints?
 He reads about their lives, teaches kids what being a saint means,
preaches about saints at midnight mass on Christmas eve....

---

From: Matthew Keeley <matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:19:55 +0000

> preaches about saints at midnight mass on Christmas eve....

Well, one could put it down to an Italian or Mafioso reverence for the saints.

And of course, there's a reference to St. Catharine, which actually
made me laugh when I read it.

I think there's more to it, though I'm not quite sure WHAT yet.

-Matt

---

From: thalassocrat at nym.hush.com <thalassocrat at nym.hush.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 03:13:49 +0000

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:19:55 +1100 Matthew Keeley 
<matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>Well, one could put it down to an Italian or Mafioso reverence for 

>the saints.

I was struck by how many of the female saints (Lucy, Agatha, 
Catherine, umm another one?) were tortured and matyred for refusing 
the marriage proposals or amorous advances of pagans. I wondered 
whether this connected somehow with the absence of any mention of a 
mother for Chris, but couldn't do much with that. Perhaps it's just 
a common trope in the hagiograsphy of early female saints.

St Joan crops up also, I think. FWIW, one of the formal charges 
against St Joan was wearing men's clothing, apparently - which 
makes you think of Novia. 

Wikipedia says Joan reverted to wearing men's clothing in prison 
after being raped, to avoid it happening again. That brings back 
one of the questions I have: why isn't Novia much more raped than 
she seems to be in Chris' narrative? Chris is raped immediately on 
his first ship; how does Novia-as-boy escape? And what about the 
periods where Novia and Chris are stuck on different ships etc?

---

From: Matthew Keeley <matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:49:14 +0000

> periods where Novia and Chris are stuck on different ships etc?

I think Novia hides a lot from Chris. At one point Chris claims that
he thinks nothing ever happened to her, but he's not sure. If Novia
were raped, that would explain her desire for knives and guns.

-Matt