# PF Chronology *The Urth list — 5 messages, 3 voices, 08 Dec 2007* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### thalassocrat at nym.hush.com *08 Dec 2007, 13:57* I come to the following conclusions: - Chris1's "birthday" is around about now; 2007. - Chris2 is writing in about 2017. - Chris2 appeared from the past around about the same time as Chris1 was born, so 2007 again (interesting ...) - The pirate-action happens in about 1675. Here's how I get there. First, we have some information about various events in Chris1's time-line: A: "Born" B: Goes to Cuba C: Enters monastery school D: Begins novitiate E: Ends novitiate & goes to past F: Goes forward again We know: B = A+10 (he goes to Cuba at age 10). C = A+13 (approx: he went to school "a few years" after arriving in Cuba). D = A+16 (approx: "A year seems like a lifetime at that age, so three or maybe four lifetimes passed before I went from being a student to being a novice ...") E = A+17 (a novitiate normally lasting one year?) F = A+19 (or less: the pirate-time doesn't seem to have been more than this to me.) For Chris2, we know he is 28 or 29 when he goes to Cuba to become Ignacio: he's 28 at the time of his interview with Bishop Scully, with maybe a birthday before he finishes writing. Assuming "F" above is right, he was 19 when he appeared from the past, so that was about ten years before he heads to Cuba. And so, assuming he goes to Cuba at around "B", when Chris1 and his father go, the date of his appearance from the past must have been around about "A". In other words, he comes back at about the same time he was "born". We have reasonable dating for the "past" action. Captain Burt speaks of Drake in the Golden Hind sailing around the world "almost a hundred years ago". This voyage lasted from 1577 through 1580. Let's say "E" = 1675. We can use this to kludge up an estimate for the "present" datings. At the very end of the book, Chris2 says: "Today .. we have been dead 300 years". This is rubbery, but let's assume that Chris2 assumes he's going to live a three-score-and-ten. That gives him another 41 or 42 years at the time he's writing. So, back in the "past", he would live until about 1675+42 = 1717. Three hundred years on from then is 2017. That fixes an approximate date for "B", the date when Chris1 and (presumably) Chris2 both arrive in Cuba - about 10 years into our future. And Chris1 is being decanted from his test-tube or whatever just about now. --- ### Matthew Groves *08 Dec 2007, 15:36 · in reply to thalassocrat at nym.hush.com* > On Dec 8, 2007 7:57 AM, wrote: > I come to the following conclusions: > A: "Born" [2007] > B: Goes to Cuba [2017] > C: Enters monastery school [ca. 2020] > D: Begins novitiate [ca. 2023-4] > E: Ends novitiate & goes to past [to ca. 1675] > F: Goes forward again [to 2007] [ G: Fr. Chris begins writing in 2017] [ H: Fr. Chris returns to Cuba in 2018] Well done. Happy birthday Chris. > We have reasonable dating for the "past" action. Captain Burt > speaks of Drake in the Golden Hind sailing around the world "almost > a hundred years ago". This voyage lasted from 1577 through 1580. > Let's say "E" = 1675. Also, Capt. Burt mentions that Panama City has been rebuilt and reinforced since Capt. Morgan burned it. That occurred in 1670, and Panama City was rebuilt in 1673. So the events of the novel must take place sometime after 1673 and before 1680. 1675 sounds good to me. And doesn't this quote seem suggestive: "A year seems like a lifetime at that age, so three or maybe four lifetimes passed before I went from being a student to being a novice...." -- not only for its hint about Chris's multiple lifetimes, but for its possible implications about the time line: Let's say Chris is drifting backwards in time one lifetime (70 years) for every year he is at the monastery. For three or four years he is a student, and for another year or so he is a novice. Let's call it somewhat less than 5 years total at the monastery, meaning Chris drifts back somewhat less than 350 years. Assuming, from your calculations, that Chris entered the monastery in 2020, that means he exits the gates sometime after 1670, which accords pretty well with your "E" and with the burning of Panama. On another subject, what to make of Chris's many references to saints? He reads about their lives, teaches kids what being a saint means, preaches about saints at midnight mass on Christmas eve.... --- ### Matthew Keeley *03 Jan 2008, 22:19 · in reply to Matthew Groves* > On Dec 8, 2007 3:36 PM, Matthew Groves wrote: > On another subject, what to make of Chris's many references to saints? > He reads about their lives, teaches kids what being a saint means, > preaches about saints at midnight mass on Christmas eve.... Well, one could put it down to an Italian or Mafioso reverence for the saints. And of course, there's a reference to St. Catharine, which actually made me laugh when I read it. I think there's more to it, though I'm not quite sure WHAT yet. -Matt --- ### thalassocrat at nym.hush.com *04 Jan 2008, 03:13 · follows Matthew Keeley* > On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:19:55 +1100 Matthew Keeley > wrote: > On Dec 8, 2007 3:36 PM, Matthew Groves > wrote: >> On another subject, what to make of Chris's many references to >> saints? >> He reads about their lives, teaches kids what being a saint >> means, >> preaches about saints at midnight mass on Christmas eve.... > Well, one could put it down to an Italian or Mafioso reverence for > the saints. > > And of course, there's a reference to St. Catharine, which > actually > made me laugh when I read it. > > I think there's more to it, though I'm not quite sure WHAT yet. I was struck by how many of the female saints (Lucy, Agatha, Catherine, umm another one?) were tortured and matyred for refusing the marriage proposals or amorous advances of pagans. I wondered whether this connected somehow with the absence of any mention of a mother for Chris, but couldn't do much with that. Perhaps it's just a common trope in the hagiograsphy of early female saints. St Joan crops up also, I think. FWIW, one of the formal charges against St Joan was wearing men's clothing, apparently - which makes you think of Novia. Wikipedia says Joan reverted to wearing men's clothing in prison after being raped, to avoid it happening again. That brings back one of the questions I have: why isn't Novia much more raped than she seems to be in Chris' narrative? Chris is raped immediately on his first ship; how does Novia-as-boy escape? And what about the periods where Novia and Chris are stuck on different ships etc? --- ### Matthew Keeley *04 Jan 2008, 07:49 · in reply to thalassocrat at nym.hush.com* > On Jan 4, 2008 3:13 AM, wrote: > > Wikipedia says Joan reverted to wearing men's clothing in prison > after being raped, to avoid it happening again. That brings back > one of the questions I have: why isn't Novia much more raped than > she seems to be in Chris' narrative? Chris is raped immediately on > his first ship; how does Novia-as-boy escape? And what about the > periods where Novia and Chris are stuck on different ships etc? I think Novia hides a lot from Chris. At one point Chris claims that he thinks nothing ever happened to her, but he's not sure. If Novia were raped, that would explain her desire for knives and guns. -Matt ---