{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/495", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 495, "subject": "BookImaginaryBeings", "messages": 6, "voices": 3, "first": "1998-04-16T21:15:54+00:00", "last": "1998-04-17T06:24:04+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.geis.com" }, "date": "1998-04-16T22:12:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) BookImaginaryBeings", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #2870989 from URTH at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET#\n\nXury,\n\nFWIW & IMHO, all of THE BOOK OF IMAGINARY BEINGS is essential reading\nfor those more than superficially interested in TBOTNS. Period, end\nof report.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Jorge Romero", "address": "bempjr at redkbs.com" }, "date": "1998-04-16T23:11:37+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) BookImaginaryBeings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "FWIW & IMHO, all of THE BOOK OF IMAGINARY BEINGS is essential reading\nfor those more than superficially interested in TBOTNS. Period, end\nof report." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have read TBOIB in Spanish but the Spanish translator of TBOTNS, that\nI read in English and then checked in Spanish, obviously didn't because\nhe got a few things wrong.\n\nBest\n\nPedro Jorge" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William H. Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "1998-04-16T21:15:54+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) BookImaginaryBeings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "FWIW & IMHO, all of THE BOOK OF IMAGINARY BEINGS is essential reading\nfor those more than superficially interested in TBOTNS. Period, end\nof report." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I have read TBOIB in Spanish but the Spanish translator of TBOTNS, that\nI read in English and then checked in Spanish, obviously didn't because\nhe got a few things wrong." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh, don't pick on the poor guy. Just imagine his horror after he had\nstarted the translation in earnest and truly realized the magnitude of the\ntask he had taken on for the first time.\n\nWilliam Ansley" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.geis.com" }, "date": "1998-04-17T01:47:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) BookImaginaryBeings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #8579609 from URTH at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET01#\n\nPedro Jorge,\n\nI have never read TBOIB in Spanish (that is to say, ELDLSI, \"El libro\nde los seres imaginarios\"), but I have seen incredible differences in\na few English language editions. I don't know which English language\nedition would be considered the best--I only know first hand how much\nsome of them differ. (Borges was fluent in English, at least\nconversationally, if I remember correctly? Wolfe wrote a poem and an\nessay talking about how frustrated he felt for Borges who was visiting\nthe US and had to deal with Americans practicing their high school\nSpanish upon him when he [Borges] was speaking to them in English.)\n\nFor example, my 1987 edition (Penguin paperback \"Revised, enlarged and\ntranslated by Norman Thomas di Giovanni in collaboration with the\nauthor (1969)\"; reprinted with revisions 1974; reprinted 1980, 1984,\n1987) has some charm, it also has some hideous typos that seem to have\ncome from primitive optical scanning output which was never proof read\nby human eyes.\n\nLike this case, from the entry under \"The Monster Acheron\":\n\n\"!n [sic] the tenth book of the _Odyssey_ . . . \"\n\nIt is difficult for me to imagine a copy editor who would mistake \"!\"\nfor \"I\" . . .\n\nSome editions gloss the ancient authors in modern English; others\nmaintain (or fabricate?) an ancient patina, like this gem regarding\nthe Crocotta:\n\n\"Pliny writes (VIII, 21) that the Crocotta is an animal `ingendred\nbetwixt a dog and a Wolfe [sic]'\"\n\nWell, no--Pliny was writing in Latin, wasn't he? So this citation,\nthis gem, would seem to be from a medieval English translation.\nFrom Latin to medieval English to modern Spanish, then back to\nmedieval English again?!\n\nThen again, all this textual variation seems so very \"Borgesian\" in\nitself!\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Jorge Romero", "address": "bempjr at redkbs.com" }, "date": "1998-04-17T06:19:23+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) BookImaginaryBeings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "FWIW & IMHO, all of THE BOOK OF IMAGINARY BEINGS is essential reading\nfor those more than superficially interested in TBOTNS. Period, end\nof report." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I have read TBOIB in Spanish but the Spanish translator of TBOTNS, that\nI read in English and then checked in Spanish, obviously didn't because\nhe got a few things wrong." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Oh, don't pick on the poor guy. Just imagine his horror after he had\nstarted the translation in earnest and truly realized the magnitude of the\ntask he had taken on for the first time." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I am a translator too, and I can realize that perfectly well (when\nyou make a mistake it is there, printed in a book, for everybody to\nsee).\n\nBest\n\nPedro Jorge" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Jorge Romero", "address": "bempjr at redkbs.com" }, "date": "1998-04-17T06:24:04+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) BookImaginaryBeings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I have never read TBOIB in Spanish (that is to say, ELDLSI, \"El libro\nde los seres imaginarios\"), but I have seen incredible differences in\na few English language editions. I don't know which English language\nedition would be considered the best--I only know first hand how much\nsome of them differ. (Borges was fluent in English, at least\nconversationally, if I remember correctly? Wolfe wrote a poem and an\nessay talking about how frustrated he felt for Borges who was visiting\nthe US and had to deal with Americans practicing their high school\nSpanish upon him when he [Borges] was speaking to them in English.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There should be an edition co-translated by Borges and Norman Thomas\nDi'Giovanni (I am not sure of this name). That was considered the\ncanonical English language edition." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "For example, my 1987 edition (Penguin paperback \"Revised, enlarged and\ntranslated by Norman Thomas di Giovanni in collaboration with the\nauthor (1969)\"; reprinted with revisions 1974; reprinted 1980, 1984,\n1987) has some charm, it also has some hideous typos that seem to have\ncome from primitive optical scanning output which was never proof read\nby human eyes." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That one. The Spanish original is full of tipos too." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Like this case, from the entry under \"The Monster Acheron\":\n\n\"!n [sic] the tenth book of the _Odyssey_ . . . \"\n\nIt is difficult for me to imagine a copy editor who would mistake \"!\"\nfor \"I\" . . .\n\nSome editions gloss the ancient authors in modern English; others\nmaintain (or fabricate?) an ancient patina, like this gem regarding\nthe Crocotta:\n\n\"Pliny writes (VIII, 21) that the Crocotta is an animal `ingendred\nbetwixt a dog and a Wolfe [sic]'\"\n\nWell, no--Pliny was writing in Latin, wasn't he? So this citation,\nthis gem, would seem to be from a medieval English translation." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From Latin to medieval English to modern Spanish, then back to\nmedieval English again?!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Then again, all this textual variation seems so very \"Borgesian\" in\nitself!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Most of those things with translations are supposed to be done on\npurpose. And I know that in the translation they went back to the\nsources it that was in English.\n\nBest\n\nPedro Jorge" } ] } ] }